Universal Income Instead Of "Itemized Welfare"

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:31:37.813Z

I said in the OP everyone gets the same universal income. So nothing is being “redistributed”. Everyone gets the same universal income. Everyone is subject to the same inflation - and keep in mind, this is to REPLACE current welfare spending. Not add on. So you have to include that in projected inflation

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:33:14.791Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

I said in the OP everyone gets the same universal income. So nothing is being “redistributed”. Everyone gets the same universal income. Everyone is subject to the same inflation.

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:35:04.614Z

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

Well, ya thats why its called guaranteed universal income. And depending on the amount, it wouldnt remove the pressure or need to work or excel. Even people who retire need to be productive. And universal income certainly wouldnt be enough to retire.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:36:04.853Z

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.

God forbid we treat humanity as something more than a piece of labor.

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:37:07.342Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

Well, ya thats why its called guaranteed universal income. And depending on the amount, it wouldnt remove the pressure or need to work or excel. Even people who retire need to be productive. And universal income certainly wouldnt be enough to retire.

Fine. I go so far as to supporting a safety net based on the moral principle that you can’t just leave people to starve and they should have a chance to improve themselves if they can.
That is as far as I go.
We pretty much have that now.

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:37:09.478Z

Will congress be lowering their salaries to be compliant with universal income? Asking for a friend.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:39:00.493Z

DougBH:

Fine. I go so far as to supporting a safety net based on the moral principle that you can’t just leave people to starve and they should have a chance to improve themselves if they can.
That is as far as I go.
We pretty much have that now.

Right. So, should that come in the form of direct/itemized welfare, or via universal income? You thought people would just spend the money on other things?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:39:50.461Z

altair1013:

Will congress be lowering their salaries to be compliant with universal income? Asking for a friend.

Universal income would be agnostic of your working wages/income

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:40:10.323Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

God forbid we treat humanity as something more than a piece of labor.

If you died tonight, your job would be posted before your obituary. The fact is, you are paid for your labor. That’s it. Nobody started a business to help the poor. They start a business to make money. All you are owed is a paycheck.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:41:02.875Z

altair1013:

If you died tonight, your job would be posted before your obituary. The fact is, you are paid for your labor. That’s it. Nobody started a business to help the poor. They start a business to make money. All you are owed is a paycheck.

Thats certainly your choice to view people that way.

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:41:06.953Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Right. So, should that come in the form of direct/itemized welfare, or via universal income? You thought people would just spend the money on other things?

Some people might. Give them food stamps to feed their kids, not money to spend on alcohol.

wiley8425 · 2019-03-27T01:41:26.492Z

Because eventually the government goes broke and you end up with social upheaval anyway?

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:43:39.652Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Thats certainly your choice to view people that way.

It’s got nothing to do with me. I don’t hire, fire or set wages. But my company hires people who can best help the company. They don’t hire the people who need the job the most. Neither does yours.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:44:08.173Z

altair1013:

All you are owed is a paycheck.

My bad, i thought some rights preceded my existence. Otherwise, its an open field

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:45:55.223Z

altair1013:

It’s got nothing to do with me. I don’t hire, fire or set wages. But my company hires people who can best help the company. They don’t hire the people who need the job the most. Neither does yours.

Awesome. Great. However, we are talking about how we as a society value each other and how such values should be reflected in pur welfare system. Not how your boss likes to hire and fire people. Do you believe humans are more than a “piece of labor”?

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T02:01:48.728Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Awesome. Great. However, we are talking about how we as a society value each other and how such values should be reflected in pur welfare system. Not how your boss likes to hire and fire people. Do you believe humans are more than a “piece of labor”?

I do!!! I also believe that if people are treated poorly or under paid by their employer, they should protest by leaving the company and taking their skills to a more deserving employer. Because there a good people and bad people. The bad people don’t deserve good help.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T02:20:08.566Z

altair1013:

I do!!! I also believe that if people are treated poorly or under paid by their employer, they should protest by leaving the company and taking their skills to a more deserving employer. Because there a good people and bad people. The bad people don’t deserve good help.

Awesome. And they could still do that with universal income.

AlexMcAlpine · 2019-03-27T04:17:43.525Z

Because most of the 97 percent employed dont make a living wage when you factor in cost of housing and healthcare and dentistry

Eagle-Keeper · 2019-03-27T15:46:04.401Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Why wouldn’t the free market decide this? Labor markets would still be free. Just like they are now with current welfare payouts. But yes, universal income does present unique problems

Who would actually get this money and how would that be decided?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T16:24:39.558Z

Eagle-Keeper:

Who would actually get this money and how would that be decided?

Everyone gets the same, as has been mentioned. Its why its called universal income. Of course, people would be free (and would need to) work still to make ends meet. The big question is how much people should get. Again, remember this is replacing welfare as it is now.