Universal Income Instead Of "Itemized Welfare"

Jezcoe · 2019-03-27T01:25:31.186Z

Eagle-Keeper:

How is that related? You have to pay off the mortgage to own the house.

A government guaranteed mortgage creates an artificially lower price to home ownership.

It is a form of welfare to the middle class.

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:27:15.912Z

Not buying the distinction.

Jezcoe · 2019-03-27T01:28:59.291Z

DougBH:

“Printing money” (electronically, of course) is a redistribution of resources so lets drop the nonsense that we aren’t taking assets from some to give to others. Of course that is what we are talking about.

Medicaid, food stamps etc are for specific things people need to keep alive, whether they are responsible for their own condition or not.

Just giving them money to use on big screen tvs instead of food for their children? No thanks. The moral imperative isn’t there.

“Printing money” doesn’t necessarily take “assets” away from others.

It can indeed cause inflation… but in certain circumstances it doesn’t.

That is why it is very important what the money is being printed for.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:29:32.277Z

DougBH:

Not buying the distinction.

Inflation is inflation for everyone

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:30:42.516Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

DougBH:

Not buying the distinction.

Inflation is inflation for everyone

It is a redistribution of value. The government doesn’t create that value.
It can redistribute it.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:31:37.813Z

I said in the OP everyone gets the same universal income. So nothing is being “redistributed”. Everyone gets the same universal income. Everyone is subject to the same inflation - and keep in mind, this is to REPLACE current welfare spending. Not add on. So you have to include that in projected inflation

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:33:14.791Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

I said in the OP everyone gets the same universal income. So nothing is being “redistributed”. Everyone gets the same universal income. Everyone is subject to the same inflation.

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:35:04.614Z

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

Well, ya thats why its called guaranteed universal income. And depending on the amount, it wouldnt remove the pressure or need to work or excel. Even people who retire need to be productive. And universal income certainly wouldnt be enough to retire.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:36:04.853Z

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.

God forbid we treat humanity as something more than a piece of labor.

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:37:07.342Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

DougBH:

Ah, so we are moving from economic distribution based on personal efforts or property ownership to economic distribution based on existence.
It certainly removes the pressure to excel.
I am against it.

Well, ya thats why its called guaranteed universal income. And depending on the amount, it wouldnt remove the pressure or need to work or excel. Even people who retire need to be productive. And universal income certainly wouldnt be enough to retire.

Fine. I go so far as to supporting a safety net based on the moral principle that you can’t just leave people to starve and they should have a chance to improve themselves if they can.
That is as far as I go.
We pretty much have that now.

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:37:09.478Z

Will congress be lowering their salaries to be compliant with universal income? Asking for a friend.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:39:00.493Z

DougBH:

Fine. I go so far as to supporting a safety net based on the moral principle that you can’t just leave people to starve and they should have a chance to improve themselves if they can.
That is as far as I go.
We pretty much have that now.

Right. So, should that come in the form of direct/itemized welfare, or via universal income? You thought people would just spend the money on other things?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:39:50.461Z

altair1013:

Will congress be lowering their salaries to be compliant with universal income? Asking for a friend.

Universal income would be agnostic of your working wages/income

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:40:10.323Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

God forbid we treat humanity as something more than a piece of labor.

If you died tonight, your job would be posted before your obituary. The fact is, you are paid for your labor. That’s it. Nobody started a business to help the poor. They start a business to make money. All you are owed is a paycheck.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:41:02.875Z

altair1013:

If you died tonight, your job would be posted before your obituary. The fact is, you are paid for your labor. That’s it. Nobody started a business to help the poor. They start a business to make money. All you are owed is a paycheck.

Thats certainly your choice to view people that way.

DougBH · 2019-03-27T01:41:06.953Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Right. So, should that come in the form of direct/itemized welfare, or via universal income? You thought people would just spend the money on other things?

Some people might. Give them food stamps to feed their kids, not money to spend on alcohol.

wiley8425 · 2019-03-27T01:41:26.492Z

Because eventually the government goes broke and you end up with social upheaval anyway?

altair1013 · 2019-03-27T01:43:39.652Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

Thats certainly your choice to view people that way.

It’s got nothing to do with me. I don’t hire, fire or set wages. But my company hires people who can best help the company. They don’t hire the people who need the job the most. Neither does yours.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:44:08.173Z

altair1013:

All you are owed is a paycheck.

My bad, i thought some rights preceded my existence. Otherwise, its an open field

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-03-27T01:45:55.223Z

altair1013:

It’s got nothing to do with me. I don’t hire, fire or set wages. But my company hires people who can best help the company. They don’t hire the people who need the job the most. Neither does yours.

Awesome. Great. However, we are talking about how we as a society value each other and how such values should be reflected in pur welfare system. Not how your boss likes to hire and fire people. Do you believe humans are more than a “piece of labor”?