United Kingdom Supreme Court declares the advice of Boris Johnson to prorogue Parliament unlawful and declares the Queen's Order in Council null and void

Safiel · 2019-09-25T01:56:34.081Z

westaussie:

By convention she accepted the advice of the PM. The Supreme Court found Johnson’s actions unlawful.

A soldier is bound to obey the orders of his superiors. However, he is ALSO bound NOT to obey an order to commit an illegal act. No soldier can plead that he was just obeying orders.

The same with the Queen. If she receives advice to commit an illegal act, it is not a defense that she was advised to do so.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T01:56:35.655Z

Boris Johnson should have already resigned.

Steel-W0LF · 2019-09-25T01:59:58.015Z

westaussie:

I am no fan of QEII. I don’t believe the SC’s decision will have any impact on her standing with the general population of the UK.

I’m more questioning on how the citizenry will take this slight to the queen, not worried about how it affects her popularity with them.

Basically I’m wondering if the citizens are going to be upset at the courts for doing this to what I think is a fairly well loved monarch.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T02:00:25.923Z

As I said I am absolutely no fan of QEII. Personally, I think her only qualification was that she was the elder sister with no brothers. However, it was not up to her to determine whether Johnson’s actions were lawful. I would love to be able to be present the next time Johnson meets QEII.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T02:07:10.480Z

What is dangerous is the pat that Johnson and his supporters are doing is to undermine the judicial standing in the community.

From what I have seen and read the UK is deeply divided over the Brexit referendum result. It has seen the downfall of two PMs and Johnson should be the third to go.

Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage et al don’t care the consequences of a hard Brexit. I will also point out that Johnson voted twice against the deal to leave the EU brokered by T May.

I personally don’t thing the SC’s decision will ave any impact on the standing of QEII.

Steel-W0LF · 2019-09-25T02:13:00.301Z

Agreed. I don’t think it will affect her.

Nemesis · 2019-09-25T02:48:22.999Z

Safiel:

Supreme Court: Lady Hale's statement on 'unlawful' Parliament suspension - BBC News

The United Kingdom Supreme Court, with the unanimous support of all Justices, declared the advice of Boris Johnson to prorogue Parliament unlawful and declared the Queen’s Order in Council proroguing Parliament to be null and void. She further said that the Speaker’s of both Houses could immediately act to bring their respective Houses back into immediate session.

Not said openly by the Justices, but clearly implied was that the Queen’s Order in Council itself was unlawful and therefore the Queen committed an unlawful act, not mitigated by the fact that she received government advice to do it.

While the Queen is essentially immune to criminal and civil actions while she remains the Sovereign, this is clearly going to do a great deal of damage to the monarchy and strengthen the hands of those who wish to strip the Queen of all remaining prerogative powers.

The Queen acted in good faith on the advice she was given by her PM.

The outrage is against Boris Johnson for using established political protocols to try and get round the will of Parliament.

There is no call from any significant majority that the queen is somehow to blame.

The monarchy is safe, it is Johnson and the conservative government that is in far more peril.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T03:15:11.201Z

How can any Tory support Johnson remaining as PM? What has happened to Ministerial responsibility?

Safiel · 2019-09-25T03:50:15.227Z

It is a 100% certainty that Boris Johnson will resign, possibly as soon as Parliament returns.

If he doesn’t, the votes exist to pass a no confidence motion, bringing him down anyway.

And most likely there will be a General Election before the end of the year, in which the Conservatives, in spite of it all, will likely end up with the most seats, primarily because the Labour Party are a bunch of hopeless ■■■■■■ bags. Their recent party conference vote to ban private schools if they come to power isn’t helping them at all.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T04:41:39.766Z

Number 10 has said he won’t resign.

There won’t be a vote of no confidence moved by the Labour Party until there has been an official extension to the Brexit deadline.

Safiel · 2019-09-25T04:51:12.465Z

westaussie:

Number 10 has said he won’t resign.

There won’t be a vote of no confidence moved by the Labour Party until there has been an official extension to the Brexit deadline.

I wouldn’t put too much stock in his initial statements, he knows his position is untenable.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T05:00:52.891Z

What will be really interesting to watch is the relationship between the Speaker and Johnson.

MoleUK · 2019-09-25T08:10:08.101Z

Steel-W0LF:

I’m more questioning on how the citizenry will take this slight to the queen, not worried about how it affects her popularity with them.

Basically I’m wondering if the citizens are going to be upset at the courts for doing this to what I think is a fairly well loved monarch.

It’s not the courts that did it, it’s Boris.

Even pretty staunch Republicans are going out of their way not to blame the Queen on this one, she acted on the “advice” given to her, she doesn’t get to say no.

Samson_Corwell · 2019-09-25T09:32:42.901Z

MoleUK:

Steel-W0LF:

I’m more questioning on how the citizenry will take this slight to the queen, not worried about how it affects her popularity with them.

Basically I’m wondering if the citizens are going to be upset at the courts for doing this to what I think is a fairly well loved monarch.

It’s not the courts that did it, it’s Boris.

Even pretty staunch Republicans are going out of their way not to blame the Queen on this one, she acted on the “advice” given to her, she doesn’t get to say no.

Little-R republicans.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T11:25:33.254Z

The Boris Johnson government is so bad they desperately want a motion of no confidence to be moved in the House of Commons.

acsirip · 2019-09-25T12:40:22.925Z

History unfolding…

Lady Hale <3

ABC News

Who is Lady Hale? The judge just delivered a new Brexit blow to Boris Johnson

Lady Hale, the judge who delivered a decision on Brexit that throws a wrench in Boris Johnon's plan, became an internet sensation.

Nemesis · 2019-09-25T12:47:34.787Z

westaussie:

The Boris Johnson government is so bad they desperately want a motion of no confidence to be moved in the House of Commons.

There is not a great deal of support for a no confidence vote because that could result in a General Election. If parliament is dissolved and we hit 10/31 then we come out of the EU with no deal.

The Very thing that MPs are trying to avoid would become a reality.

westaussie · 2019-09-25T12:50:45.233Z

Which is the point that all the opposition parties have made.

What does it say about how incompetent Johnson is that after 8 weeks as PM he is desperate to lose a motion of no confidence?

Nemesis · 2019-09-25T13:04:40.385Z

**[quote=“westaussie, post:28, topic:213550, full:true”]
Which is the point that all the opposition parties have made.

What does it say about how incompetent Johnson is that after 8 weeks as PM he is desperate to lose a motion of no confidence?
[/quote]

I suspect in the short term his position as PM will remain. Chances are that at some point this year the UK will go a general election.

If the Tories win then its possible at that point a no confidence vote in the PM will gather traction but that all depends on the size of the win.

Should the Tories lose then he will be replaced as leader of the Conservative Party.

No one should under estimate Johnsons ability to survive. He is a consumate politician and all the noise around Brexit could actually help him remain as PM.

Then again he could shock everyone and resign this afternoon its all guess work.

57Nomad · 2019-09-25T22:11:39.215Z

Safiel:

westaussie:

By convention she accepted the advice of the PM. The Supreme Court found Johnson’s actions unlawful.

A soldier is bound to obey the orders of his superiors. However, he is ALSO bound NOT to obey an order to commit an illegal act. No soldier can plead that he was just obeying orders.

The same with the Queen. If she receives advice to commit an illegal act, it is not a defense that she was advised to do so.

This analogy isn’t even close to accurate.

The queen would have been denying the PM a move historically afforded PM’s, doing so would she would have directly injected herself into the politics of parliament. This was not a problem for the queen to sort out. The crown does not sort out political problems.