Unitarianism versus the Trinity

Samson_Corwell · 2018-07-07T03:02:52.012Z

Oh. I came here thinking this was about utilitarianism versus the Trinity.

AlexMcAlpine · 2018-07-08T14:30:46.216Z

Samson_Corwell:

I came here thinking this was about utilitarianism versus the Trinity.

And when you discovered it wasn’t, you didn’t want to talk about unitarianism?

Apparently neither does anyone else…

Samson_Corwell · 2018-07-08T16:48:00.262Z

Juxtaposing utilitarianism and the Trinity would have been novel.

Safiel · 2018-07-08T18:46:27.833Z

AlexMcAlpine:

I am still stuck in the Old Testament and have no got to the new.

However, I was listening to an audio book a couple of days ago about Joseph Preistly, a scientist/priest in the 1750s, who became a Unitarian - someone who believes Jesus was a prophet but not the son of God. And if I remember correctly, Jesus as the son of God didn’t come about until the Council of Nicea.

So…is Jesus as the son of God just a tradition started by Catholics, or is there actual text in the Bible saying he is God. If so, how can there be a controversy that he was human, not divine?

I should note that Unitarians generally reject the doctrine of the infallibility of the Bible. I am not sure if there are any Unitarians that participate on these boards. That might explain the lack of response to your post.

Smyrna · 2018-07-08T20:29:28.852Z

18 Now the [o]birth [p]of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is [q]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,

23
[r]Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,
And they shall call his name [s]Immanuel;

which is, being interpreted, God with us. 24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name Jesus.

Drs · 2018-07-20T23:18:30.604Z

No actually Michael Servetus who many considered one the early leaders of the Unitarian belief. Jesus is the son of God but not equal and not without beginning unlike God.

AlexMcAlpine · 2018-07-20T23:43:31.998Z

Smyrna:

18 Now the [o]birth [p]of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is [q]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying,

23
[r]Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,
And they shall call his name [s]Immanuel;

which is, being interpreted, God with us. 24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name Jesus.

If this is in the Bible why is their a debate over Jesus’ diviinity?

Drs · 2018-07-21T00:55:06.660Z

Because it does not prove Jesus was the divine.

God being with people is used a few times in the bible and never does it imply God was literally there.

Chris · 2018-07-21T01:29:54.754Z

John 10:30-36.

30 I and My Father are one.”
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (NKJV)

And 1st John 5:7.

7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (NKJV)

Smyrna · 2018-07-21T01:42:07.130Z

AlexMcAlpine:

If this is in the Bible why is their a debate over Jesus’ diviinity?

People debate many things you believe are clear, don’t they?

Drs · 2018-07-21T01:58:43.396Z

Using added verses inserted on the bible is not proof of anything.

Marv · 2018-07-21T02:05:37.323Z

Unitarians as an organized religion today dont necessarily believe in Christianity at all. The church started that way as an alternative to trinity believing Christians, but they’ve since joined with Universalists (everyone is saved no matter what) and now don’t have any creed at all. I don’t know that any organized church out there today subscribes to unitarian Christianity as a theological position.

Chris · 2018-07-21T02:18:35.142Z

1st John 5:7?? That verse might of been added into the Bible. There is a bit of debate about it.

Drs · 2018-07-21T02:26:49.006Z

Not really older manuscripts do not show it being there.

Safiel · 2018-07-21T02:32:23.202Z

Marv:

Unitarians as an organized religion today dont necessarily believe in Christianity at all. The church started that way as an alternative to trinity believing Christians, but they’ve since joined with Universalists (everyone is saved no matter what) and now don’t have any creed at all. I don’t know that any organized church out there today subscribes to unitarian Christianity as a theological position.

While most Unitarians joined with the Universalists and are now essentially not Christian, there are a handful of small Unitarian denominations that did not join with the Universalists and still consider themselves Christian. Very few and far in between, but they are out there.

AlexMcAlpine · 2018-07-21T19:06:48.901Z

Smyrna:

People debate many things you believe are clear, don’t they?

True.

So, people who don’t believe in Jesus’ divinity don’t think those verses belong in the Bible at all? It’s not that they somehow think the verses can be interpreted differently?

(I know very little about the history of the Bible’s formation. Trying to learn.)

AlexMcAlpine · 2018-07-21T19:08:09.792Z

Drs:

Not really older manuscripts do not show it being there.

Ah, this is what I get for reading from the bottom up. My question had already been answered.

lwdc · 2018-07-21T22:17:26.165Z

“My Lord and my GOD!”

-Thomas, talking to Jesus… John20:28. Pretty clearly spelled out.

Drs · 2018-07-22T00:12:13.144Z

When Moses was God to pharaoh and Aaron did that make Almighty?

How about those who were called gods in Israel who acted as judges?

AlexMcAlpine · 2018-07-22T14:48:42.214Z

lwdc:

“My Lord and my GOD!”

-Thomas, talking to Jesus… John20:28. Pretty clearly spelled out.

What is clearly spelled out?

That Thomas thought Jesus was God? (And not the son of God)?