Undersea blasts in the Baltic: Did Biden follow through with threats to end NordStream 2?

[e7alr]

False flags are like that. they are supposed to defy logic.

[WuWei]

@STODR

What makes a pipeline a Weapon?

Winter. And winter is coming.

[WuWei]

@e7alr

False flags are like that. they are supposed to defy logic.

I don’t think I agree with that.

[e7alr]

I’m talking about the actual source of the operation, not the portrayed source.

[WuWei]

Mmmmmmm.

[Gaius]

@Samm

@bigtwnvin

I still say the pipeline was a poorly engineered Russian project and substandard materials or workmanship led to a failure. The external pressures of the depths and the internal pressure of the gas could have found a weakness and boom.

That is highly unlikely. Not only were the two lines build by International Engineering/construction Firms that have been engineering and constructing sub-sea pipelines for more than 35 years, but the probability of both Nord Steam lines failing simultaneously is infinitesimally small.

Yes. . . on fact I was about to post oldish (months old) articles of leaks developing in NS1 but I held off when I thought about the non-probability of three sudden leaks in two pipleines being a coincidence.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Bill.in.PA

Even as neo-cons are frantically spinning, Blinken is bragging.

He’s right, though. Do you think Europe plans to return to the previous state of affairs?

[e7alr]

The search for the culprit starts with the questions of who gets hurt the most by this and who profits the most. Sometimes things are done purely for profit, sometimes purely to inflict loss, and sometimes, the lost profit is worth the opportunity to inflict the harm.

[JayJay]

@e7alr

The search for the culprit starts with the questions of who gets hurt the most by this and who profits the most. Sometimes things are done purely for profit, sometimes purely to inflict loss, and sometimes, the lost profit is worth the opportunity to inflict the harm.

Precisely.

Which is why the case can be made the Russians did it.

Especially if they made the calculus that come hell or high water, Europe was weaning itself off Russian gas and oil.

[e7alr]

The gas was already off. Putin doesn’t dare initiate military operations against NATO. A nuclear attack on NATO has a MAD outcome. His only weapons are economic. No natural gas to Europe during the peak demand season causes economic and social injury to NATO members and will raise his profits from the customers bypassing sanctions. It also is a weak log on the smoking diversion he is trying to sell to his public.

[Bill.in.PA]

Does Europe have any choice now that the Russian pipelines are destroyed?

There are examples in the past when leaders took decisive action to prevent retreat. Cortez burned his own ships when he got to Mexico; the conquistadors had win or die. On the other hand, Jim Jones made his Jonestown followers drink purple Koolaid laced with cyanide after he shot a US congressman who was instigating the cult. He would not let his followers surrender and most perished.

Is current situation in Europe more like that of the conquistadors or that of the Jonestown cult?

[JayJay]

They had no choice even before the pipelines were destroyed.

Russia saw to that…and I’m not talking about merely turning off the gas.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Bill.in.PA

Does Europe have any choice now that the Russian pipelines are destroyed?

Short term? No.

@Bill.in.PA

Is current situation in Europe more like that of the conquistadors or that of the Jonestown cult?

I reject both analogies. I simply don’t agree that The EU, U S., or Ukraine are in such dire straits.

Putin might be, though

[Bill.in.PA]

Europe’s problems are primarily self-inflicted.

They chose to start a sanctions war with Russia. They froze $350 billion in Russian financial assets, removed Russian banks from the SWIFT system, halted licensing Nord Stream 2, and attempted to ban Russia oil and natural gas. The problem for the Europeans was that they soon realized that they needed Russian oil and natural gas to avoid economic collapse, so they modified the sanctions to continue to purchase Russian energy at reduced levels.

In recent months, flow through Nord Stream 1 has been reduced. Originally there was problem with a turbine, and Canada refused to service it since it was going for the pipeline in Russia. Eventually the Germany interceded, and the turbine returned, but other alleged problems and/or Russian foot-dragging prevented full operation.

Canada caught between allies as Germany presses for return of Russian turbine...

The destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines means that the US can use Poland and Ukraine to prevent flow of Russian gas to Europe even if Germany and other western countries dropped their sanctions on Russia.

Blinken can tell Germany to drink the Koolaid whether they want to or not.

[JayJay]

So you believe what you are shoveling, or do you eat paid for Russian propaganda?

Seriously I want to know.

Russia has seen to it that Western European countries will decouple from Russia as fast as possible.

They don’t want to get back with Russia…not now that they see what Russia truly is.

Hey are you carrying Russian water so much?

[WuWei]

[Bill.in.PA]

Russia can cut off the flow through the pipelines at anytime with twist of a valve. They don’t need to destroy their own multibillion-dollar investment to stop the flow.

The previous threats and sanctions from US officials combined with Blinken’s extolling of the benefits of the destruction confirm that the US is an obvious beneficiary of the destruction of the pipelines.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Bill.in.PA

The destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines means that the US can use Poland and Ukraine to prevent flow of Russian gas to Europe

Again: there is no reason to think that Europe would want to return to the previous status quo. I suppose an intact pipeline might be a temptation in the short term, but Europe will want off Russian gas.

@Bill.in.PA

Blinken can tell Germany to drink the Koolaid whether they want to or not.

The U.S doesn’t order the EU around, and they have defied our wishes before.

[JayJay]

You…aren’t…listening.

I’ll explain it again slowly so maybe even you will get it.

If…Russia…has…decided…the…European…market…will…be…permanently…reduced…NordStream…is…now…a…liability…not…an…asset.

The…calculus…changes.

So…they…can…”use”…the…pipelines…in…other…ways.

Got it now?

[zantax]

@JayJay

@Bill.in.PA

NATO labeled the pipelines as a “Russian strategic weapon”. The value of the pipelines to Russia was that the gas from the pipelines provided leverage to end existing NATO sanctions and could give Russia billions in new revenue in coming years.

The neo-con fantasies about Russia destroying their own greatest weapon makes no sense.

You are still avoiding addressing the reasons I posted as to why Russia might have done it and are simply repeating yourself.

I accept your surrender, comrade…

Talk about motivated reasoning lol.