Trump promised 20 million vaccines by the end of the year

[Camp]

And yet there continue to be mixed messages from the Biden administration, in spite of the president’s repeated insistence that science, and science only, would guide his response. It’s gotten the attention of the New York Times, which noted polls showing significant percentages of various groups, from Republicans to minorities to health care workers, are skeptical about the vaccine.

Virologists and epidemiologists told the Times it’s because of messaging that emphasizes uncertainty and potential bad news. While not necessarily false, it’s misleading.

Coronavirus experts frustrated with Fauci, media on mixed vaccine messaging:...

Mixed…inconsistent…flip…flop…muddled…uncertain…

Take your pick. Wrong is wrong.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

Seriously…the vaccines work against the variants.

Good thing you’re not in charge…

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-israel-study/south-african-variant-can-break-through-pfizer-vaccine-israeli-study-says-idUSKBN2BX0JZ

[Borgia_dude]

@Medicswife2002

@Camp

He changed again yesterday.

Lockdown 4 ever.

Seriously…the vaccines work against the variants.

Fauci: ‘It’s Still Not OK’ to Eat or Drink Indoors Even if You’re Vaccinated Fauci: 'It's Still Not OK' to Eat or Drink Indoors Even if You're Vaccinated

Fauci changing again just a couple posts down from folks demanding to see him making changes. Holy ■■■■■ perfect timing! Except now watch the goal posts move yet again, more endless excuses to be made for his changes, and lefties to deny he’s even made any changes. Its how they roll.

You seem to roll with mischaracterizations.

[Camp]

First question…Do you know what the hedge word MAY indicates?

Second…did you read the article you posted?

It tells you not to conclude what you suggest.

They also said the research was not intended to deduce overall vaccine effectiveness against any variant, since it only looked at people who had already tested positive for COVID-19, not at overall infection rates.

[Camp]

Better than rolling with cheap rhetorical shots at other posters POV.

All opinions are welcome here. That is why we are strong.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

First question…Do you know what the hedge word MAY indicates?

Second…did you read the article you posted?

It tells you not to conclude what you suggest.

They also said the research was not intended to deduce overall vaccine effectiveness against any variant, since it only looked at people who had already tested positive for COVID-19, not at overall infection rates.

Well, you made a declarative statement that vaccines were effective against variants. Here it is again.

@Camp

Seriously…the vaccines work against the variants.

No “may” there, you seem sure. It’s good you aren’t in charge cause scientists wait until the science comes in and checks out. Hence, the “may” in the news article. Perhaps you should have included the word as well.

[Camp]

Take Fauci’s word for it then…

but they still appear to be within an important “cushion of protection,” particularly after two doses, and should prevent disease, according to Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Hope Web MD is a good enough source for you.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

Take Fauci’s word for it then…

but they still appear to be within an important “cushion of protection,” particularly after two doses, and should prevent disease, according to Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Hope Web MD is a good enough source for you.

Sure it it is a great source. Had you read it carefully, you would see the Fauci quote was about the Brazil variant, not the South Africa variant. Here’s the relevant part from your source…

The B.1.351 variant is more troublesome. Studies have shown that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 86 times less effective against this variant, which was first detected in South Africa.

The mRNA vaccines are 6- to 8-fold less effective against this variant, suggesting a significant waning of protection. In clinical trials in South Africa, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine also was less effective where this variant was surging.

Thanks for the help proving you wrong.

[Camp]

I am 100 percent correct.

Read the chart.

None of the variants evade the vaccine.

Worst case is unknown…that is an expected outcome of a mutation.

The vaccines are effective. The variants are not an unexpected or problematic development. The effort to undermine the vaccine is malicious IMO.

[Medicswife2002]

I wear my mask and will get vaccinated but that doesn’t stop me from recognizing changing advice lol. He’s firmly established himself as a gov mouthpiece willing to say anything way back near the beginning.

A well paid government employee just doing his job…not a biased bone in his body huh? Yeah no, I don’t believe that.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

I am 100 percent correct.

Read the chart.

None of the variants evade the vaccine.

Ok, I’m reading the chart. Second row, fourth column it lists the ability to evade the vaccine as “moderate” for the South African variant. Not sure how you square that with “none of the variants evade the vaccine”

Couple that chart with this statement…

The B.1.351 variant is more troublesome. Studies have shown that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 86 times less effective against this variant, which was first detected in South Africa.

The mRNA vaccines are 6- to 8-fold less effective against this variant, suggesting a significant waning of protection. In clinical trials in South Africa, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine also was less effective where this variant was surging.

And add in, why are the companies still researching on these variants if, as you say, “none of the variants evade the vaccine”? Do they just like to waste money?

Pfizer is testing a third dose of its initial vaccine to see whether it will increase protection enough to prevent infection from new strains. It’s also reformulating its vaccine to produce antibodies against the new variants.

Moderna and Novovax have also announced that they will develop strain-specific multivalent vaccines to better take on the variants, according to The Wall Street Journal. AstraZeneca has also committed to developing next-generation vaccines against the variants.

[Camp]

Moderately protected against a variant that is not as debilitating or deadly as the original is a good place to be.

The South African strain is not believed to be more deadly than the initial strain, but it is known to spread more quickly than the initial strain.

Covid and your heart

Contrary to the original speculation FWIW.

[Camp]

@Borgia_dude

And add in, why are the companies still researching on these variants if, as you say, “none of the variants evade the vaccine”? Do they just like to waste money?

Why would they NOT want to improve overall efficacy?

They are having research $$ thrown at them for this.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

not as deadly as the original

Can you source this because it isn’t supported in the link you provided.

[Borgia_dude]

@Camp

@Borgia_dude

And add in, why are the companies still researching on these variants if, as you say, “none of the variants evade the vaccine”? Do they just like to waste money?

Why would they NOT want to improve overall efficacy?

They are having research $$ thrown at them for this.

The vaccines are 95% efficient vs the original strain. Research to improve that would be ridiculous. Bottom line, the SA variant has moderate ability to evade the vaccine (thereby reducing the 95% efficiency) so they are putting in effort to find ways to combat this. This is contrary to your statement…

@Camp

Seriously…the vaccines work against the variants.

No, the SA variant in particular seems to have a moderate ability to evade the vaccine which is shown in the table and accompanying statement in the webmd source THAT YOU PROVIDED. Thanks.

[tnt]

I agree with that. but you claimed he changed on Vaxed people dining out. I was wondering when he said it would be fine for vaxed to dine indoors.

I have only heard the CDC say vaxed can hang with other vaxed with no masks no social distance, and/or with one other family, vaxed or not, no makes, no distance.

[tnt]

Wow! Only 296 covid deaths yesterday!

Only 48K cases…

Come on vaccines…keep driving those numbers down…

[tnt]

Oh crap - looks like Sunday is usually the low day in the week, and 48K is actually higher than last couple sundays.

Still…that’s a low death number for us.

[Camp]

Case counts have always been a weak metric.

More so with a faster spreading weaker impact variant.

The fatality number is better news and the one to watch.

[PurpnGold]

@Medicswife2002

I wear my mask and will get vaccinated but that doesn’t stop me from recognizing changing advice lol. He’s firmly established himself as a gov mouthpiece willing to say anything way back near the beginning.

A well paid government employee just doing his job…not a biased bone in his body huh? Yeah no, I don’t believe that

I’ve learned through reading this thread… is that science is not allowed to change. Once a scientist makes a claim, it is written in stone. A non-scientist can make a counter claim to the science and if they happen to be right… they are now anointed a scientist.