Trump ends medical deferred action program

[Jezcoe]

@zantax

@Jezcoe

@zantax

@Jezcoe

I understand the sentiment, and from a purely Utilitarian manner you are correct.

But… what is morally gained by sending children who are currently under treatment back to countries where they will most likely die?

I don’t think that people can make the case that that is the right and moral thing to do… even while trying to make an argument that in the huge federal budget that this is somehow taking away resources from working to provide clean water to parts of the world where it may be inadequate.

It doesn’t make too much sense.

First of all, it’s an unsubstantiated assumption that kicking them out means they will die. Other countries have hospitals and cancer treatment. And the huge federal budget absolutely takes money away from my charitable spending. Which happens to include donating to provide clean water, food and basic medicine to third world countries. The government is horrible at choosing where our charitable dollar goes, mostly because they are far more concerned with getting re-elected than they are charity.

I think that most people would agree that getting sick children the medical treatment that they need is a pretty good use of “our” charitable dollars.

Wouldn’t you agree with that?

No, not here. It’s spending a ton of money to save one child that could be spent to save hundreds. Your moral calculator is busted.

Reality isn’t always the trolley problem.

[WuWei]

@Jezcoe

Now we are moving from a moral argument to a legalistic one.

There is no moral argument for you taking my money with the threat of imprisonment for illegal immigration.

[tnt]

@zantax

I already pointed out to you how paying for a foreign childs’ cancer treatment here is not the moral choice. Far more lives could be saved using that money to get foreign children access to clean drinking water as one example. We, meaning US citizens, do not have an unlimited supply of money. That means the moral thing to do is to maximize the good our charitable dollar does. If you take a dollar from me in additional taxes that is one less charitable dollar I have to spend and I make better choices to maximize the good that dollar does than the government does. Same goes for welfare.

All that is well and good, and could certainly guide our actions in teh future, but today, right now, there are kids in hospitals in america that are getting life saving treatments.

Future policy decisions doesn’t negate the fact that it is morally wrong to sever them from lifesaving treatment.

[WuWei]

What’s moral about bankrupting companies which provide work for illegals already in this country so they can put food in their children’s mouths?

[reflechissez]

@Jezcoe

@Guvnah

@Jezcoe

I would rather not have religious sectarian violence in this country thank you very much.

You’re great at filtering and applying, but you KNOW your hypocrisy in pretending to take a stand on religion here. You’re not standing on it. You’re trampling it.

And you know it. The whole bunch of you.

And I know you (generic) don’t care about your hypocrisy. You’ll keep doubling down with it because the fight is more important than your integrity.

Well … you said be ready to embrace " all of Christianity"

Christians can’t agree on what that means.

But what I find really awesome, is in a story where there are people who are asking that their deportation be suspended because they are currently in medical treatment… that the discussion is “How much is this costing me?”

Now… I am not quite sure when this type of sociopathy ascended from Hell to take root in American culture, but it is a cancer.

Let us take for example the people who face deportation and interruption of medical care.

Children Receiving Care at Boston Hospitals Face Deportation After Federal Policy Change – NBC Boston

In Boston alone, the decision could affect about 20 families with children fighting cancer, HIV, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, epilepsy and other serious conditions, said Anthony Marino, head of immigration legal services at the Irish International Immigrant Center, which represents the families.

Deporting children who are in treatment for cancer and cystic fibrosis, and then justifying it because it might cost more money than one think that it does… it probably doesn’t… but hell… it is quite a justification… it not a good look for our nation.

maybe trump could golf less

[WuWei]

B2 visa. Legal immigration.

[tnt]

@WuWei

Don’t let government be confused for “good”.

You are the government. The government is you. Per the US constitution.

[PizzaReverend]

@zantax

@PizzaReverend

@zantax

@PizzaReverend

@zantax

@PizzaReverend

@WuWei

@PizzaReverend

@WuWei

@PizzaReverend

Why should I let these peasants glean from
my fields! (Leviticus 23:22)

Not government fields.

No, but ordered to by the Government.

You guys realize that Leviticus and Deuteronomy are basically the constitution and law code of ancient Israel right?

No, not ordered to by the government.

“Basically”. Equating the central government with God. While denying you’ve made government into a religion. Tsk tsk.

Wow, that is an offensively absurd reading.

God set up the government in Israel, and people were expected to obey those laws. Our government was set up by a group of men- but we are still expected to obey those laws.

The only person equating God and Government is you, and I’m pretty sure neither would be happy with the comparison.

Then Obey Trump when he kicks them out. Which is it, do we have to obey the government all the time or just when they do something you like?

Oh wow, someone actually made a fair point! Thank you Zantax, for actually taking the time to read, comprehend and make an actually applicable point. Sincerely.

Now to address it, there’s a difference between obeying a Government doing things you don’t like, vs things that are morally evil. Raising taxes to help pay for welfare seems very difficult to describe as evil, whereas denying children cancer treatment is most definitely evil. Further, the Bible is pretty clear that you are to obey the law unless it is ordering you to do something directly contradictory to Gods teaching - examples include Daniel refusing to stop praying, Shadrack Meshack and Abednego refusing to worship Nebachenzzer, and Paul and other Apostles refusing to stop teaching the word of God. Paying taxes would not fall into that category, while deporting a dying child IMO certainly would.

I already pointed out to you how paying for a foreign childs’ cancer treatment here is not the moral choice. Far more lives could be saved using that money to get foreign children access to clean drinking water as one example. We, meaning US citizens, do not have an unlimited supply of money. That means the moral thing to do is to maximize the good our charitable dollar does. If you take a dollar from me in additional taxes that is one less charitable dollar I have to spend and I make better choices to maximize the good that dollar does than the government does. Same goes for welfare.

But that is a falicious point for several reasons. 1). As the richest country on Earth, we could dig a billion wells, treat billions of sick, and feed every hungry person on earth and still not spend as much as Bill Gates would on his 15 Yachts. Second, while you giving a charitable dollar may feel good (and is good), you don’t have the means or resources to spread that charitable dollar to places that need it. Sure maybe you could donate that dollar to a guy on the street, or maybe you could donate it to an org that builds a well, but that org has limited means to get to places that needs those wells, while the government has a much farther reach and can buy far more equipment and supplies in bulk at lower prices. Third, and most importantly, most human beings aren’t charitable people. Most are greedy selfish jerks, and that includes huge amount of “Christians.”. If we relied solely on charity to feed the poor or care for the sick, deaths would skyrocket over night. This is literally the function of government, to provide a means to take care of the weakest in society. God himself knew that when he set up Israel and actually built Welfare into the system, because He knew that left to their own devices, men will not
do the right thing.

Odd, I can’t find taking care of the worlds needy in my copy of the constitution as an enumerated power of our federal government. So no, it isn’t remotely a function of our government, not legitimately at any rate.

To provide for the common defense, to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty…

[reflechissez]

@zantax

@PizzaReverend

@zantax

@PizzaReverend

@WuWei

@PizzaReverend

@WuWei

@PizzaReverend

Why should I let these peasants glean from
my fields! (Leviticus 23:22)

Not government fields.

No, but ordered to by the Government.

You guys realize that Leviticus and Deuteronomy are basically the constitution and law code of ancient Israel right?

No, not ordered to by the government.

“Basically”. Equating the central government with God. While denying you’ve made government into a religion. Tsk tsk.

Wow, that is an offensively absurd reading.

God set up the government in Israel, and people were expected to obey those laws. Our government was set up by a group of men- but we are still expected to obey those laws.

The only person equating God and Government is you, and I’m pretty sure neither would be happy with the comparison.

Then Obey Trump when he kicks them out. Which is it, do we have to obey the government all the time or just when they do something you like?

Oh wow, someone actually made a fair point! Thank you Zantax, for actually taking the time to read, comprehend and make an actually applicable point. Sincerely.

Now to address it, there’s a difference between obeying a Government doing things you don’t like, vs things that are morally evil. Raising taxes to help pay for welfare seems very difficult to describe as evil, whereas denying children cancer treatment is most definitely evil. Further, the Bible is pretty clear that you are to obey the law unless it is ordering you to do something directly contradictory to Gods teaching - examples include Daniel refusing to stop praying, Shadrack Meshack and Abednego refusing to worship Nebachenzzer, and Paul and other Apostles refusing to stop teaching the word of God. Paying taxes would not fall into that category, while deporting a dying child IMO certainly would.

I already pointed out to you how paying for a foreign childs’ cancer treatment here is not the moral choice. Far more lives could be saved using that money to get foreign children access to clean drinking water as one example. We, meaning US citizens, do not have an unlimited supply of money. That means the moral thing to do is to maximize the good our charitable dollar does. If you take a dollar from me in additional taxes that is one less charitable dollar I have to spend and I make better choices to maximize the good that dollar does than the government does. Same goes for welfare.

what’s the budget for golf?

[moonshine]

@WuWei

@BlueTex

@WuWei

Moral grandstanding with my money is not moral.

You forcing me at threat a jail to buy your party votes is not moral.

Making people dependent on handouts from government coffers is not moral.

Who are you to decide what is moral for somebody else? You want to hand out, use your own wallet.

Where do you stand on punishing employees who hire illegals?

It’s my money as well…

Mine isn’t. You want to give? Give. Give everything you have. Every last penny.

Don’t tell me I have to.

we can just use teh billions trump is using to build his stupid wall…

[Borgia_dude]

@zantax

@blueapplepaste

@WuWei

Centgov is Not Jesus, despite lib belief to the contrary.

Yet the right screams how were a Christian nation and we need God in our government.

Except when it comes for caring for the sick apparently.

So do you really want to follow his example as a country? Ready to give everything we have away until we are no richer than the poorest people on the globe? Or do you only want to cite scripture when you don’t get some particular item on your wish list? Have you given everything to the poor? Are you posting this from some monk cell? What are you doing with a computer and internet access anyway? You know there are starving children right?

Balance is required in all things. That is why I mentioned that I doubted the cost here was prohibitive.

[biggestal99]

It’s like strom thromond who had the hots for his black maid.

Allan

[Borgia_dude]

@Guvnah

@tnt

Since it’s not a child,

We’ve been through this countless times.

I consider your position on the matter sinister. Bringing that back up just reinforces that.

You disagree with Jewish scholars?

[zantax]

@PizzaReverend

To provide for the common defense, to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty…

Lol, you think that means the global general welfare? Nevermind the framers expressly said that was not an enumerated power.

[zantax]

@Borgia_dude

@zantax

@blueapplepaste

@WuWei

Centgov is Not Jesus, despite lib belief to the contrary.

Yet the right screams how were a Christian nation and we need God in our government.

Except when it comes for caring for the sick apparently.

So do you really want to follow his example as a country? Ready to give everything we have away until we are no richer than the poorest people on the globe? Or do you only want to cite scripture when you don’t get some particular item on your wish list? Have you given everything to the poor? Are you posting this from some monk cell? What are you doing with a computer and internet access anyway? You know there are starving children right?

Balance is required in all things. That is why I mentioned that I doubted the cost here was prohibitive.

Yeah, it’s not like cancer treatment is expensive here or anything.

[WuWei]

@tnt

@WuWei

Don’t let government be confused for “good”.

You are the government. The government is you. Per the US constitution.

So you are Trump.

[WuWei]

@Borgia_dude

Balance is required in all things. That is why I mentioned that I doubted the cost here was prohibitive.

Legal immigration.

[tnt]

@WuWei

So you are Trump.

Yep. He is our government, of, by and for us all.

[TommyLucchese]

@biggestal99

It’s like strom thromond who had the hots for his black maid.

Allan

There was no way that dude didn’t have the jungle fever. My dad used to always say that the flip side of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. Hate is still a strong emotional reaction.

Also, and I’m not comparing Miller to Hitler-he’s like Martin Bormann at best-but apparently Hitler was desperately in love with a Jewish girl in Vienna and sent her a bunch of secret admirer letters saying he would kill her and then himself if she didn’t love him back.

[Guvnah]

@Borgia_dude

We elect our govt to do a lot of things. If you don’t like it, elect a different govt.

And right now our government is saying we’re not giving medical treatment to illegals. they can procure it in their home country.