Trump didn't know much about NATO

well savanna guthriie’s gotta have something to smugly and indignantly nail him on in a town hall right?

that’s their lil mission from god


The change in spending preceded President Trump and then President Trump re affirmed it.

It then changed even more after the attack

This is actually pretty funny.

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That’s also funny given one of the tents of the project :blush:

It’s always amazed me that Progressives were so irate over Trump asking NATO members to pay what they agreed to. It completely goes over their heads that the only reason the Europeans have the expanded social welfare states they covet is due to us funding their defense throughout the Cold War.


“god” not God. leftists worship something but i dont think it’s God.

To be fair to the Europeans they mostly paid and kept decent sized militaries during the Cold War. It was the peace dividend in the 90s following the Soviet collapse where they all decided to stop spending military money entirely and just rely on us.

Only country that didn’t go down that road was France. To give credit to the French they have maintained a sizable defense structure since the Soviet collapse.

The worst was the Germans. They had the second largest NATO contingent during the Cold War and when it ended and they reunified they completely fell all kinds of apart.

Weirdly enough the Euros did both social welfare and modern military readiness during the Cold War. We actually could have done the same had we wanted to; we had the money. But we produced so many nuclear weapons for offensive operations that the social welfare couldn’t be done to the same level that the Europeans did.

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Yes there is religiosity in a political movement. Sure but that still doesn’t change the fact that it’s funny bringing up religion given what the project is about in part.

Complicated. There’s plenty of Christian leftists who justify their leftist beliefs through Christianity’s call to do good works and to care for their fellow man. Christian socialism is a thing and it was hugely powerful in America until the Bolshevik Revolution freaked everyone out.

Like the Quran, everyone interprets the Bible differently.


The newer Eastern European members will have Putin and Russia living under their bed at night for long after you and I are gone. 2014 just confirmed their worst fears about Russia. As for the more Western members, head in the sand about what Putin was really about wasn’t truly driven home until Feb 2022.

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Well put

not many. a true leftist eschews any orthodoxy beyond their own situational ethics or of some aggrieved group.

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Depends on the type of a leftist. A Bolshevik or Blanquist rejects the existence of God because the Republic is the new God and must replace him.

Those two groups are probably the most extreme sort of leftist though and not really representative of all leftist thought.

Some leftist beliefs have to have God in the theory because of a variety of reasons. True Neo-Jacobins have to have a higher power in place because man cannot be trusted to judge man alone.

There’s also conservative atheism. Ayn Rand’s entire philosophy was framed from an atheist mindset. There can be no God because the market is God.

It’s all over the place honestly. Some ideologies only work with a higher power being acknowledged and others have to destroy that entire idea to function.

My own personal ideology needs me to believe in a higher power. I reject the theory of Voltaire that man is inherently good. And because man is not inherently good, man cannot judge man. Thus I am a Deist because my personal belief system only works with the mindset of something being higher than man.

This is a human thing not just a leftist thing. All ethics are personal even if they are derived from dogma.


And when ethics aren’t personal a whole bunch of people have to get their heads chopped off until we get a republic of virtue.

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all interesting. but regarding the true modern American leftist….

immature, even childlike and petulant. “my way or anarchy” attitude. driven purely by emotion, and theater (“not my president” anti-oil traffic blocking “protests”). Their cause du jour is their “religion” and anarchy is the sacrament.

Which is not even real.

The greater good (like forgotten man :face_with_hand_over_mouth:) is that much nonsense

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If a Republic of Virtue actually exists, its streets will be paved with the skulls of all its citizens. Cause no one is that virtuous.

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But let’s not talk about the religious right :blush:

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Oh they’re just as bad as the Godless Atheists. They just don’t realize it.