Trump considers return to our Constitution’s original tax plan ending un-apportioned direct tax on earned wages

[Publius]

@conan

@Publius

Why would you think I would be in favor of a regressive consumption tax?

Are we not consuming to many resources?

What the hell does that have to do with tax policy? People are going to consume stuff - the only question is how much of a cut does Uncle take, and by what means. And who bears the greatest proportional burden, which for consumption taxes is poor folks.

[Publius]

@thinkingman

@PurpnGold

@thinkingman

@tnt

@thinkingman

@tnt

Which results in a higher cost to the retailer, which results in a higher price for the consumer.

incentive to mfgr said product domestically

2d chess

I think you meant 3d chess.

But yeah, all for it.

But it will result in the source of govt. funding drying up in John’s plan to replace income tax with tarriffs.

no - “2d” maybe even 1d

why is everyone so afraid of the govt losing money?

Our spending and our debt.

By your logic, why even have a federal tax at all?

by your logic, why bother with an income at all?

Shark jumped.

[conan]

@Publius

What the hell does that have to do with tax policy? People are going to consume stuff - the only question is how much of a cut does Uncle take, and by what means. And who bears the greatest proportional burden, which for consumption taxes is poor folks.

Most poor folks don’t buy many none necessities…and when they do most of em buy it second hand.

[Publius]

@johnwk2

@Publius

IF tariffs could provide sufficient revenue

Now, go to the OP and read it very carefully for the complete tax plan.

I have.

The rest of it is similarly nonsensical.

[PurpnGold]

@thinkingman

@PurpnGold

@thinkingman

@tnt

@thinkingman

@tnt

Which results in a higher cost to the retailer, which results in a higher price for the consumer.

incentive to mfgr said product domestically

2d chess

I think you meant 3d chess.

But yeah, all for it.

But it will result in the source of govt. funding drying up in John’s plan to replace income tax with tarriffs.

no - “2d” maybe even 1d

why is everyone so afraid of the govt losing money?

Our spending and our debt.

By your logic, why even have a federal tax at all?

by your logic, why bother with an income at all?

What?!

We are talking about taxes…focus

[Publius]

@conan

@Publius

What the hell does that have to do with tax policy? People are going to consume stuff - the only question is how much of a cut does Uncle take, and by what means. And who bears the greatest proportional burden, which for consumption taxes is poor folks.

Most poor folks don’t buy many none necessities…and when they do most of em buy it second hand.

Maybe “poor” wasn’t the best word - let’s say lower middle to middle class, for whom demand of many consumer products is rather inelastic. Who buy cheaper stuff from abroad to save money, because other countries are good at making cheap stuff.

[conan]

@Publius

Maybe “poor” wasn’t the best word - let’s say lower middle to middle class, for whom demand of many consumer products is rather inelastic. Who buy cheaper stuff from abroad to save money, because other countries are good at making cheap stuff.

Again are they not undermining their value by buying abroad?

Just throwing that out there to think about.

[Publius]

The value of a widget is the same whether you buy it from here or there. The cost may differ. I imagine if you offered a typical cost-conscious consumer two choices for a functionally identical product, one cheaper and made overseas, and the other more expensive and made here, most will choose the cheaper one.

[conan]

@Publius

The value of a widget is the same whether you buy it from here or there. The cost may differ. I imagine if you offered a typical cost-conscious consumer two choices for a functionally identical product, one cheaper and made overseas, and the other more expensive and made here, most will choose the cheaper one.

Would the value of individual wage be worth more in United States if taxes are place on imports?

Now I’m not advocating this but I do see some positive things about this form of taxation.

To be honest I’m not sure how I think about it.

[Publius]

@conan

@Publius

The value of a widget is the same whether you buy it from here or there. The cost may differ. I imagine if you offered a typical cost-conscious consumer two choices for a functionally identical product, one cheaper and made overseas, and the other more expensive and made here, most will choose the cheaper one.

Would the value of individual wage be worth more in United States if taxes are place on imports?

Now I’m not advocating this but I do see some positive things about this form of taxation.

To be honest I’m not sure how I think about it.

All other things being equal, the value of your wages would go down because your costs would be greater - you could buy less for the same amount of money.

[tnt]

@conan

@Publius

By the importer, and passed along to the consumer.

It’s a consumption tax…wait. I thought libs would love that idea after all they complain we’re consuming too much.

@tnt

Which results in a higher cost to the retailer, which results in a higher price for the consumer.

Same for you.

Consumption taxes are regressive. Lower income households spend a drastically higher percentage of their income.

[tnt]

@thinkingman

no - “2d” maybe even 1d

why is everyone so afraid of the govt losing money?

Aren’t you saying the incentive to mnufacture products domestically is an added benefit to this plan?

And therefor it’s more complex than just 2D chess?

[tnt]

@conan

@Publius

The value of a widget is the same whether you buy it from here or there. The cost may differ. I imagine if you offered a typical cost-conscious consumer two choices for a functionally identical product, one cheaper and made overseas, and the other more expensive and made here, most will choose the cheaper one.

Would the value of individual wage be worth more in United States if taxes are place on imports?

Now I’m not advocating this but I do see some positive things about this form of taxation.

To be honest I’m not sure how I think about it.

Yeah, well, that’s the value of tariffs. To incentivize domestic production.

But the thing is, the more you do that, under the plan presented in the OP, the less income the govt. has, making a rise in income taxes to compensate more likely.

[conan]

@Publius

All other things being equal, the value of your wages would go down because your costs would be greater - you could buy less for the same amount of money.

There wage would be worth more if there is no tariff on American goods as more Americans would buy American made products. Only way to bring that wage down is to flood America with millions of more people.

[conan]

@tnt

Yeah, well, that’s the value of tariffs. To incentivize domestic production.

But the thing is, the more you do that, under the plan presented in the OP, the less income the govt. has, making a rise in income taxes to compensate more likely.

Like I said…I’m not sure how I feel about it. I do you pros & cons. But I do remember standard of living was higher for average American worker before globalization.

[Publius]

By what metric?

[Publius]

@tnt

@conan

@Publius

The value of a widget is the same whether you buy it from here or there. The cost may differ. I imagine if you offered a typical cost-conscious consumer two choices for a functionally identical product, one cheaper and made overseas, and the other more expensive and made here, most will choose the cheaper one.

Would the value of individual wage be worth more in United States if taxes are place on imports?

Now I’m not advocating this but I do see some positive things about this form of taxation.

To be honest I’m not sure how I think about it.

Yeah, well, that’s the value of tariffs. To incentivize domestic production.

But the thing is, the more you do that, under the plan presented in the OP, the less income the govt. has, making a rise in income taxes to compensate more likely.

And based on current unemployment figures, do we even have sufficient surplus labor capacity to produce anywhere near all the stuff we currently buy from abroad?

[johnwk2]

@Publius

@johnwk2

@Publius

IF tariffs could provide sufficient revenue

Now, go to the OP and read it very carefully for the complete tax plan.

I have.

The rest of it is similarly nonsensical.

So, according to you, our Founder’s original tax plan is “nonsensical”?

Perhaps you ought to look in a mirror for the nonsensical one,

[conan]

@Publius

By what metric?

If inflation 3.3 but wages go up 4.3…are American people better off?

[Publius]

@johnwk2

@Publius

@johnwk2

@Publius

IF tariffs could provide sufficient revenue

Now, go to the OP and read it very carefully for the complete tax plan.

I have.

The rest of it is similarly nonsensical.

So, according to you, our Founder’s original tax plan is “nonsensical”?

Perhaps you ought to look in a mirror for the nonsensical one,

Our founders’ original tax plan made sense in a 1789-era pre-industrial society. In 2024, it is nonsensical and indeed counter-productive. It would raise prices for everyone, and if successful in driving domestic production of cheap stuff that it isn’t economical to produce here, not produce any revenue either. All while assuming we have the surplus labor capacity available to make the stuff here in the first place.