Time to completely disband FISA courts

Thank goodness he’s not doing the hiring there…

They reached a much higher level of corruption and filth under the previous Administration and it’s the main reason that Trump got elected. He called out Obama as the worst President in our history and ran a campaign that would reverse Obama policies that crippled the country that was within his power to do and the leftist and Democrat deranged protection of Obama’s toxic legacy is what drives the TDS of the left!

A FISA court proceeding doesn’t produce an indictment. Just a warrant.

Obama is not the cause of this. It has been going on since before he was born. We live in a police state.

In fact, there were times it was worse than now.


Presentments are long obsolete in the Federal Courts and are no longer used.

They continue to be used in some State Courts, but that is not relevant here.

Time for a comeback.

End them and the first terrorist attack that might have been caught had they been in use will bring them back.
Or something just like them.

FISA is about spies, not terrorism. And it’s not about US citizens.

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If you claimDems have no patriotism, are you giving a big middle finger to all those Democrats who served in the military?

Problem solved

A presentment is merely procedurally different from an indictment.

In an indictment, the Untied States Attorney (or an Assistant United States Attorney) comes before the Grand Jury with a draft of the indictment form. He then attempts to persuade the Grand Jury to agree to the indictment form as written, by presenting evidence and statements. If the Grand Jury agrees fully or in part, they will adopt and the Grand Jury foreman will sign a True Bill.

In a presentment, the F.B.I. agent/agents or other authority personally come before the Grand Jury and present their facts and statements. The Grand Jury, usually with the help of an attorney, draws up the True Bill themselves and the Grand Jury foreman signs. The presentment procedure, as I indicated earlier, has long been deprecated.

In modern practice, one of two modes of proceeding are followed.

If the government is investigating a suspect but has not yet arrested them, they will go to the Grand Jury and get an indictment and have it sealed until the suspect is in custody.

If a suspect is arrested such as in the wake of an immediate criminal act such as a bombing, the F.B.I. agent in charge of the arrest will fill out a charging sheet and sign it and submit it to the Federal Courts as prima facie authority to hold the suspect for a limited period. The government has a very limited period, usually less than 30 days, to get an indictment from a Grand Jury. If they do not, the suspect goes free.

Presenments are simply outmoded in this day and age and their use would improve nothing.

Deprecated by whom?

I guess I can sort of see how Democrats feel about having the Senate hold the Trump trial…though that one is mandated by the Constitution.

Do you honestly believe this?

So how does FISA authorize surveillance on US citizens?


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So you’re gonna say all that about Obama and then rage about TDS on the left?

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Deprecated by those involved directly in the process, both United States Attorneys and law enforcement.

United States Attorneys find it more efficient to proceed using the indictment route and thus draw up their own draft indictments.

Law enforcement also finds it more efficient to proceed that way and thus decline to come directly before a Grand Jury to obtain a presentment.

Presentments made sense in the 18th and 19th Centuries and in the very early portion of the 20th Century, United States Attorney’s Offices generally were very small and in some States consistent only of the United States Attorney with no assistant. Law enforcement had to bear their own share of the burden before the Grand Jury.

Today, each United States Attorney’s Office has numerous Assistant United States Attorney’s and some offices like in the Southern District of New York have hundreds of Assistants. There is absolutely no need for law enforcement to conduct their own presentments before a Grand Jury. There are plenty of Assistant United States Attorneys to do indictments.

Things change over time.

Using a presentment today is loosely equivalent of going to war with a musket and black powder. :smile:

So lawyers.