This day in Politics


#2350

They’re both dirty, slimy crooks. One just flipped on the other.

And that’s also why this investigation is so time consuming for Mueller. It’s not like some Russian is gonna flip on Putin or other Russians.

Republicans got us in this Russian mess. People like Mueller and democrats will have to get us out.


#2351

Thanks for this. I actually remember this now, from his testimony yesterday. I’m curious what that means as well. The really curious part of me wonders if he has been asked to be a witness for any other cases outside of the Manafort case, and this is why Prosecutors would not object to a request for probation by his attorney. Of course, just because the Prosecution does not object, it would not guarantee that he would be granted probation by the sentencing Judge.


#2352

Thanks. Just finished doing some reading and now more up to date on this very tawdry mess.


#2353

Exactly. The judge could also go outside the guidelines and impose the max of 10 years.

Regardless, Mr. Gates is in a lot better situation than Mr. Manafort will be if the jury comes back with multiple “guilty” verdicts.


#2354

From what I’m hearing that he’s already admitted to, he certainly deserves some prison time. But it also appears the prosecution really needed his cooperation in order to nail the bigger fish.

Happens a lot when crimes are committed, even if it’s murder.

It’s also unlikely, but possible, that neither will face jail time. Manafort could be acquitted, although it would be a shock if that happened. Sounds like most of the prosecutions case is based on Gate’s testimony.


#2355

Absolutely. And he seems to be doing an enormously good job as a witness as well. I’m sure you saw this, but this comment from Gates as to why he should be believed is striking. I’m sure Manafort must be quite unnerved right now.

“I’m here to tell the truth … Mr. Manafort had the same path. I’m here,” he said, looking directly at the jury as he made his appeal. Gates added that, “I have taken responsibility… I am trying to change.”


#2356

I agree on both counts. Ultimately it’s up to the judge. But even if he gets the max, it still won’t be anything as bad as Manafort. assuming he is convicted. At his age he will likely spend the rest of his life in jail.

Oh, and as a reminder… " I only hire the best people".

Just had to add that.


#2357

A great deal of Gates’ testimony is backed up with contemporaneous documentary evidence. Emails, loan applications, account statements, wire transfers, altered documents like the balance sheet pdf.

Gates’ testimony really puts the understanding of motive behind what are pretty concretely documented actions regarding funds and loan applications.


#2358

Most of the case is actually in the documents and evidence, of which there is plenty. There are black-and-white email exchanges, signed documents, paper-trails a mile long, etc., that Gates testimony, and others testimony, are simply telling the story around it all. But in the end, these are yes-no crime questions the jury will be asked to answer.

Did Manafort pay his taxes? No.
Did Manafort forge documents to secure fraudulent loans? Yes.

As examples…


#2359

And you beat me to it this time. Good gravy, it looks like a breakdancing contest is in our future after all. :man_facepalming:


#2360

Saying Manafort had the same path sounds like prosecutors were offering him a deal as well to avoid a trial, but Manafort decided to roll the dice with a jury instead. Probably a very bad move.

And hopefully Gates is being sincere in saying he’s trying to change. People do deserve a second chance if they are truly sorry for what they did.


#2361

Its kinda creepy that you know that.


#2362

I win! I win! I win!

This is EXACTLY how I felt watching the US beat the USSR at hockey in 1980. Miracle on ICE, baby!

Take that, Tretiak!!!


#2363

anyone reading about what is happening in Bangladesh? massive rape, murder, and assault on protesters.


#2364

Ehhhh. Sorry about that…kinda got lost in the moment…won’t happen again…argle…blargle…


#2365

There is little doubt in my mind that they offered Manafort a deal. And he refused, and took his chances. And yes, it was likely a bad move, in that he will likely die in prison. However, that is better than dying from polonium poisoning, and his family also being murdered. Manafort essentially stole millions of dollars from a Russian Oligarch with direct and close personal ties to Putin, and he has been hunting him down. Manafort flipping would have likely ended with a much worse fate than rolling the dice with a couple of trials.

Hopefully he is, I agree. But I have serious doubts about it as well. Gates is the scum of the Earth, just like Manafort.


#2366

:rofl:

You already won the internet once today. What more do you want from me. Sheesh.


#2367

Thanks to you and @DOLOOP for the explanations. Yes the paper trail must have been extensive and a lot of hours put in by the FBI to build their case.

One of the things I read a few minutes ago that’s actually funny is Gates admitting that while he was assisting Manafort in committing financial crimes he was doing his own fleecing by faking expense accounts, etc. So a con man successfully conned another con man. :joy:


#2368

Best people. Only the best.


#2369

Yes, the two of them were really playing with fire. Do we have any timeline as to how long this had been going on? I’m guessing it was many years, since so many millions were involved.

Time will tell if Gates really has changed.