This day in Politics


#2330

Somebody is super nervous it seems…

Sen. Lindsey Graham said Monday night that he has told President Donald Trump that ending the special counsel investigation of Robert S. Mueller III would undermine GOP chances in November.

The South Carolina Republican, who played golf with Trump on Sunday in New Jersey and discussed several issues with the president, was asked about the investigation of Russian efforts to interfere with the 2016 presidential election at a Monday evening event hosted by the Greenville County Republican Party.

“Did Trump ask that question? He must have mentioned that about 20 times,” Graham quipped in response to an audience question about ending the Mueller probe.

Graham said that his message to Trump was in part about the reality of what Republicans could face in November if the Mueller probe is compromised by the actions of the Trump administration or congressional Republicans.

During a single round of golf. For you un-American non-golfers out there, that is more than 1 time per hole. :joy:


#2331

But things like this only serve to further division and anger. It’s not unreasonable for people to ask why Cosby and Spacey still have their stars, except for the obvious that neither of them are or have been the POTUS.

Conservatives see double standards everywhere. The left almost entirely control the media, academia, and pop culture. About the only actors who are openly conservative are people like Jon Voigt and James Woods as their careers are largely over due to their ages.

Anyway, I have never been and never will be a Trump supporter. I also don’t have much use for the people I call Trumpsters… those who threw their principles away and who either defend or ignore every bad thing he does.

But there are people who voted for Trump and are lukewarm to him now, not because they like the man but because they agree with quite a few of his policies. I’ve admitted when he’s done things I agree with. These are decent people. I personally know two of them. They completely agree with me about his twitter rants and other things. The deal breaker for me has always been his temperament more than anything else.

But I do understand those people. They don’t want Democrats in charge, and with the party moving further and further left I’m not excited at the prospect of them taking over again either.

Now we are at the stage where no matter what happens, even left wingers getting violent, is blamed on Trump. Yesterday I posted that maybe it isn’t such a good idea for Ds to say “people are going to die” if Rs get rid of Obamacare and other such rhetoric, given the fact last year one nut tried to kill Republicans, and even that was turned back to Trump.

The fact is hateful rhetoric by Ds against Rs isn’t anything new. Remember the DNC ad with Paul Ryan about to throw granny off the cliff? Then there is this story from Politico from 2011.

Now the difference I see between then and now is that Trump has dialed the rhetoric up to about 11, but much of it is directed towards the media and anyone who dared to criticized him.

It’s not a happy situation we are in, regardless of which side one is on.


#2332

I thought Lindsay Graham gave a great answer when he was asked if he agreed the press is the enemy of the people.

I’m paraphrasing, but he basically said “No, I don’t agree with that at all. We need checks and balances and that is your job. You guys can be a pain in the ass sometimes, but you aren’t our enemy”.

Well said. :joy:


#2333

Clearly we just need someone to go smash em up so they have to then decide if they wanna spend the money to redo em.


#2334

Now that is exactly how it should be handled. I agree. :clap:


#2335

Wow, what a sleaze ball. I think these guys deserve each other.


#2336

Just another one of the “best” brought on by Trump and Company. Oh, and he also admitted that he may have used some of the inauguration funds for personal expenses for himself. Gates is a real scumbag. Just like Manafort and Trump. They are all birds-of-a-feather.


#2337

Have to admit I have not followed the Manafort trial very much. Can anyone explain why Rick Gates is throwing himself under the bus?

Heard somewhere yesterday he has admitted to stealing millions from Manafort. So he’s admitting to serious crimes, instead of forcing the prosecutor to prove his guilt, which is how things usually work.

He must have worked out some kind of deal with the prosecution that I’m not aware of. Is this why he’s talking?


#2338

He has a plea agreement with Mueller and the DOJ where he still faces 5-10 years in prison. But the contingent for not facing 300 years like Manafort, is he had to agree to be truthful in testimony at the Manafort trial (and possibly other trials he could be a witness in.)


#2339

He has pleaded down to a combination of crimes that limits his exposure to incarceration to 10 years. The sentencing guideline is aroudn 4-6 years. I’d imagine if his cooperation is useful (it is certainly looking to be really, really useful), he’d get less than the guidelines, potentially even no incarceration at all.


#2340

I’d be very surprised if there was no incarceration time at all for him. Unless he is a witness for other indictments as well. But not just for his testimony in the Manafort trials. He is going to spend some time in an orange jumpsuit, in my opinion.


#2341

Thanks. I was thinking he must have a deal with the prosecution to be willing to admit to such serious criminal activity.

And yes, deals are contingent on the person being truthful and if the state finds out they were lying the deal is off. So of course it is now in his best interest to cooperate fully with prosecutors.

What a sleazy, sleazy, thing this is. Just the bit I have heard is stomach churning.


#2342

Yeah, it is bad. Both of these guys were up to their eyeballs in criminal activity for years and years. Working for some of the most horrific and brutal regimes and dictators in the world. Promoting interests that ran 100% counter to United States interests. These guys are both horrible human beings. Which is why it made perfect sense for them to be hired on to work with and for Trump, of course. :laughing:


#2343

Yes, I understand now. Makes sense for him to talk and cooperate with the prosecution. Even if he does spend time in prison it will be a lot less.

It’s also possible the state really needs his testimony in order to really nail Manafort. That’s often why deals are made.

Of course he’s going to be subjected to very rigorous cross examination by Manafort’s lawyers. As distasteful and sleazy as this whole thing is I might start following the story now.


#2344

This gives some good updates throughout the day. It has been pretty well unbiased in its reporting of events. Since there are no phones or computers allowed in the courtroom, the reporters periodically leave the room to file their updates.


#2345

I was thinking that way, too. Until I saw something (maybe I can find it) that as part of the plea deal, the Special Counsel will not object if the defense proposes a purely probationary penalty during sentencing.

That surprised me. But, my memory could be off, or I could misunderstand the importance of the statement.


#2346

I had not read that. But if that is the case, then it definitely changes my opinion on how his sentencing may go.


#2347

Thoughts and prayers.


#2348

I just heard that our president has called around 500 of his fellow Americans stupid on Twitter since he was elected.

My guess is around 100% of those disagreed with him on something.


#2349

Here we go.

Mr. Gates pleaded guilty to lying to federal authorities and conspiracy to commit fraud but has yet to be sentenced. Although sentencing guidelines recommend a prison term of up to six years, he testified that prosecutors have agreed not to object if his defense attorney argues that he should receive probation.

It’s in the NYT, so it might be behind paywall.

I think there are other references as well. I’m not sure how exactly to parse the statement that “prosecutors have agreed not to object” part. Does that mean they’ll ask for a higher sentence but not object? Or that they won’t ask for a sentence?

Either way it surprised me and seemed to leave open a pretty big chance that the only orange jumpsuit Gates wears will be from Manafort’s haberdasher and likely made of chameleon.