The US the Greatest Country on Earth?

WuWei · 2021-12-16T15:28:26.021Z

toreyj01:

Over a quarter of Germans weren’t born in Germany.

That’s a month here.

toreyj01 · 2021-12-16T15:29:48.242Z

WuWei:

toreyj01:

Over a quarter of Germans weren’t born in Germany.

That’s a month here.

In the US about 14% of our population are immigrants.

WuWei · 2021-12-16T15:30:57.740Z

toreyj01:

WuWei:

toreyj01:

Over a quarter of Germans weren’t born in Germany.

That’s a month here.

In the US about 14% of our population are immigrants.

1/4 M a month. Illegals.

toreyj01 · 2021-12-16T15:34:03.909Z

WuWei:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

A lot of that is not accurate. #5 for example.

Over a quarter of Germans weren’t born in Germany. If you live there for 8 years, have a job and pass the citizenship test, you can be a German. They are the most aggressive European country and probably country in general to accept refugees. This includes Kurds displaced in Turkey, Syrians from their civil war, etc.

They have immigration protest riots. It’s been a couple of years, but they have them.

How many of their immigrants are illegals?

Their policies are so welcoming there isn’t a need, worker visas are easy to obtain because they have lower birth rates and a huge need for labor. There are roughly 1 million undocumented people in Germany out of a population of 90 million people, so roughly a quarter of our population. That would infer an undocumented population of 4 million for the US if all things were equal, when it fact we have roughly 40 million people who are undocumented, ten times the rate.

WuWei · 2021-12-16T15:34:54.984Z

Then stop trying to compare them.

toreyj01 · 2021-12-16T15:40:01.908Z

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

FlameHeart · 2021-12-16T15:42:01.175Z

Germany has a robust economy. They are part of the backbone of the EU. And it’s true; they will work until they drop.

WuWei · 2021-12-16T17:10:09.413Z

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Fair enough. I completely disagree and will leave you with this: that grass on the other side? It just looks greener.

toreyj01 · 2021-12-16T20:03:09.031Z

WuWei:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Fair enough. I completely disagree and will leave you with this: that grass on the other side? It just looks greener.

Understood, to me, Germany is a good example because we both have had pretty bad histories. Here, we try to whitewash it while protecting statues of people who fought to preserve slavery and destroy the union. We try and limit the teaching of our history by labeling it as “CRT”, taking books from Black authors and historians off the shelves, like Toni Morrison.

Germany has a recent terrible history, with their involvement in WWII (I know I can’t say their political movement’s name). But you don’t see statues of their political or military leaders from then anywhere. Any promotion of that ideology is forbidden, and their approach now is to erase that era from their public identity and embrace hard work and multiculturalism. There is a lot we can learn from that, you don’t have to deny what happened and you can move on.

TheRedComet · 2021-12-16T21:52:03.529Z

The issue with the way Germany handles Nazism is that their constitutional right to freedom of speech doesn’t match ours. The Basic Law states that there is freedom of speech, but in another article it expands on the details by forbidding political speech that glorifies either the Nazi regime or other movements considered to be a threat to human rights.

That interpretation isn’t really compatible with the first amendment in the United States. As long your speech isn’t directing political violence as it occurs, you’re free to speak out freely on any subject for any cause. After all, we have both Nazi groups and communist organizations in the United States.

Neo-Confederates can march freely here. Neo-Nazis cannot march freely in Germany. The US Constitution and the German Basic Law are completely different documents with two different ideas on what constitutes free speech.

Mainly because both documents are framed from two different sources. The constitution is based on political, social, and economic liberty. The Basic Law is at its core focused on the protection of human rights.

Samm · 2021-12-16T23:55:33.874Z

Guilds:

Samm:

Really? You’re the one who brought Smollett into this.

No, I did not.

Yes you did. Quote:

Guilds:

Call_me_Ishmael:

Maybe you never read or heard MLK Jr’s dream speech.

It appears, that is the only speech you know from MLK.

Didn’t Smollett get convicted? How many Dems defended him after the truth came out?

Samm · 2021-12-17T00:04:03.445Z

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

So the short answer is, when it comes to the question is the US the greatest country on earth?

It could be, it should be, but it isn’t.

That begs the question … which country is? (… and why do you think so?)

No country is perfect, but I still prefer a strong Capitalist society with enough Socialist programs to even out the hard times.

In that regard, I actually think Germany is doing things pretty well.

These are the advantages of living in Germany over the US…

Habeus Corpus - They don’t have the Patriot Act there, and you cannot be held on suspicion of being a terrorist for prolonged periods of time. They also ensure that citizens have the right to be forgotten, with the government resistant to invading the privacy of its citizens. So, no NSA level snooping.

Lots of guns, but only in the right hands. You need to be certified and registered to have firearms, but you can have them. You need to secure them and they check periodically that you are being responsible. Criminals and the mentally ill are barred from firearms licenses.

Respect for the Police. You don’t see Police busting down doors in the middle of the night, stealing money from citizens because it “might” be drug money, or shooting citizens. When a police officer approaches someone in Germany they don’t fear for their lives.

Lack of barriers to a better life. Low to no cost college, but you have to serve your country in some capacity for a year. This teaches civic duties to young people who need to learn it.

Multi-Cultural society. They take in immigrants without a fuss, and the immigrants are treated better than in France or the UK. They take in a million people a year and get them to work, pronto.

Nationalized health care. Their system has private and public plans. Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. And they have a surplus. The effect of health costs on the GDP are less than 11%. It is 18% here despite not having Universal Health care.

Voting. Every German citizen over 18 can vote, and there is no nonsense like the electoral college there. Every vote is equal.

Freedom from the nanny state. Prostitution is legal, you can have a beer at 16 years of age, all religions are taught in school, marijuana is set to be legalized nationwide next year. And there is no “woke” culture. You can even smoke in bars there, for most of the country.

So, yeah, Germany has its problems like any other country, but you don’t have to worry about crime, jobs are plentiful, healthcare is free, college is cheap, folks aren’t spied on and they have tremendous abilities to travel and even hold dual citizenship, and they have embraced multiculturalism. So I would probably place them tops, but only because it is so similar to the US, just done a lot better.

That’s a very fine speech about how great you think Germany is for Germans, but it does not spell out why you think Germany deserves the accolade of “greatness” among all other countries. What have they done lately on the world stage to move them above and beyond where the US was or even still is in terms of greatness on the historic global scale?

Samm · 2021-12-17T00:09:04.529Z

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Actually, I didn’t ask you that. I asked what county was greater. There is a significant difference.

amadeus · 2021-12-17T01:09:29.175Z

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Actually, I didn’t ask you that. I asked what county was greater. There is a significant difference.

You keep talking about “the world stage.” Who gives a ■■■■ about the world stage. What is this, theater? I’ll settle for the best place to live. That’s my kind of great.

Guilds · 2021-12-17T01:17:05.497Z

Samm:

Yes you did. Quote:

Nope…

Scroll up and see “Call Me Ish” whole post (that I did not quote)

We were doing that… not judging by color… But just like Jussie Smollett… the Democrat party found that it needed to get more attention by finding racism where there was hardly any at all. So the democrats spat upon the part of this man’s dream for his four little children.

Samm · 2021-12-17T04:54:29.797Z

amadeus:

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Actually, I didn’t ask you that. I asked what county was greater. There is a significant difference.

You keep talking about “the world stage.” Who gives a ■■■■ about the world stage. What is this, theater? I’ll settle for the best place to live. That’s my kind of great.

Read the thread title. What does “Greatest country on Earth” mean other than on the world stage?

Samm · 2021-12-17T04:56:41.438Z

Guilds:

Samm:

Yes you did. Quote:

Nope…

Scroll up and see “Call Me Ish” whole post (that I did not quote)

We were doing that… not judging by color… But just like Jussie Smollett… the Democrat party found that it needed to get more attention by finding racism where there was hardly any at all. So the democrats spat upon the part of this man’s dream for his four little children.

That does not let you off the hook. You brought him up completely out of context to the part of the post that you responded to.

toreyj01 · 2021-12-17T13:43:24.638Z

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Actually, I didn’t ask you that. I asked what county was greater. There is a significant difference.

Nice goalpost shifting. You were replying to a post of mine where I detailed parts of the US that wasn’t the greatest, and I included Medicine, Education, Polarization and other details of everyday American life. You asked me who did it better and I point by point used the SAME categories and showed how I think Germany did it better, and even showed how alike our two cultures are and how we could emulate what they do.

I briefly mentioned our military, but American greatness cannot be defined solely by its military might. Germany told over most of Europe just 70 years ago, but that isn’t great, that is terrible and they have completely disavowed that era.

WuWei · 2021-12-17T19:55:30.887Z

A post was split to a new topic: A Serious Question For Progressives About Taking

Samm · 2021-12-17T21:43:06.724Z

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Then stop trying to compare them.

Samm asked me what country I thought did it better, and I not only said which, I also said with some detail why, as he requested. Whether or not you agree is moot, this is my opinion and it is based on some solid evidence. Your results and opinions may vary.

Germany is very similar to the US in sentiment and approach to things, they are a modern capitalist society, hard working and civic minded. They are Conservative by nature and very family oriented. To me, they are a model for what we should aspire to, while still keeping our identity and values, because we share a lot of them.

Actually, I didn’t ask you that. I asked what county was greater. There is a significant difference.

Nice goalpost shifting. You were replying to a post of mine where I detailed parts of the US that wasn’t the greatest, and I included Medicine, Education, Polarization and other details of everyday American life. You asked me who did it better and I point by point used the SAME categories and showed how I think Germany did it better, and even showed how alike our two cultures are and how we could emulate what they do.

I briefly mentioned our military, but American greatness cannot be defined solely by its military might. Germany told over most of Europe just 70 years ago, but that isn’t great, that is terrible and they have completely disavowed that era.

If a goalpost was shifted, it was you who did it. My question was clearly about what you thought was the greatest country on Earth (which is the thread topic) not about which is better.

For your reference:

Samm:

toreyj01:

So the short answer is, when it comes to the question is the US the greatest country on earth?

It could be, it should be, but it isn’t.

That begs the question … which country is? (… and why do you think so?)