I retired under FERS and paid in plenty, as well as max into SS.
There are fewer and fewer people left under CSRS retirement.
They should stop the current SS taxes.
That is correct. We concur on that.
If they reduced SS payments to higher-income retirees that might make sense. But that is not what SS taxes do.
Under current law, SS payments are subject to income tax (used to fund guns and bridges and welfare and green energy projects") but not subect to FICA taxes. (which go into the SS Trust Fund.)
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IOW the current SS tax scheme does not protect SS at all. It diverts money away from SS and toward everything else on Congress’s “gimme list.” It raids the piggy bank.
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Just to clarify. Income taxes paid based on Social Security do go back to the Social Security Administraton to fund benefits.
WW
Hmm I was wrong.
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I don’t know enough to know but…what ever they earned through SS, is it also being compensated additionally through a pension that tax payers paid for? In other words, are they being compensated for twice for the same dollar earned? If not…this is definitely the right thing to do. If they are, it’s more of our government that I’ve lost trust in.
No, seperate dollars.
Let’s take for example someone that worked as a Teacher in California for 20 years and earned a CALPERS pension toward retirement. California does not partipate in SS for it’s teachers. No money withdrawn. Then her husband transferred to Virginia and she worked in Virginia for 25 years and paid into Social Security.
Seperate dollars earned from seperate employers.
Under the WEP rules the SS benefits earned by working in VA would be reduced because she was drawing a CALPERS pension even though the CALPERS pension has nothing to do with SS.
The income would be:
- CALPERS pension based on the 20 years in that program.
- SS benefits based on paying into Social Security for 25 years.
The periods do not overlap and are not any kind of “double dipping”.
WW
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Thank you. If that’s the case, there’s no question about it. Are there any other scenarios involved in this Act outside of the scenario you just gave that compensates twice on the same dollar earned or are there protections in this law that prevent that?
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None that I know of where as you say “compensated twice on the dame dollar earned”. That’s what I meant by it’s not double-dipping. WEP involves the reduction of Social Security benefits for pensions earned from “non covered employement”.
Logically the same job can’t be “non covered employement” and “covered employement” at the same time.
WW
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This isn’t about Federal employees, it’s about State and Municipality employees who were vested (or have become vested) before working in a State or Municipal job that did not contribute to the SS system. Those employees had their years that they worked outside the SS system deducted from the SS benefit that they had already qualified for when working within the system. It’s not a giveaway, it’s a return of a benefit they had already qualified for. As it is, under this Bill they will still lose all of the benefits that were taken away from 1980 through 2022.
Full disclosure, I am one of those employees. I was fully vested in SS when the State of Alaska, which was my employer, switched (as was allowed by Federal Law) from SS to a program they called SBS (Supplemental Benefit System) wherein employees paid the same amount in as they previously paid into SS and the State matched it dollar for dollar. That money was then invested in a balanced fund where it accumulated with interest until the employee retired. Most retired employees then rolled that money into an IRA which they could use to supplement their retirement income in the same fashion that SS does. Those of us who were vested in SS could also apply to receive the benefits they were due under that program. But the WEP reduced the amount we were due solely on the basis that we had also worked under the SBS system. (Had we not worked at all or at a job that did not contribute the minimum quarterly amount into SS, our benefit would not have been reduced.) For me personally, my monthly payment was reduced to 63.7% of the calculated full benefit.
Yes, fairness. It gives back what was unfairly taken away.
“You” didn’t give me both. In fact, you gave me neither. I contributed the money I get from SS and I contributed the money that I get from tha SBS system as well.
You have a very poor concept of how this works.
If a person does not work for an employer that participates in the SS system, that person does not qualify for SS benefits. In fact, they could work in a job where SS applies and contribute out of their paycheck for 9-3/4 years and still not get SS benefits.
The only people who get benefits from both programs are those who qualify for benefits from both programs. It’s no different from someone who earns a retirement benefit from the military and then earns another retirement benefit from a civilian job.
Well, the W stands for “windfall.” The Congressmen who passed it seemed to think that people smart enough to get out of the SS system and into one that actually works well should be penalized.
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Government employees pay into their retirement system.
i have a private pension with my company that i did not pay into.
what is the difference?
Allan
I love when I log in here and instead of engaging an endless debate, I learn something new. Very interesting.
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I didn’t pay for your pension either
and so do I. One reason that gov’t employees did not get full SS benefits is because their employer doesn’t pay into the system. Now they want full benefits that are only 1/2 paid for while they get a full ride pension more than 1/2 paid for by taxpayers… hell of a sweetheart deal.
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That’s not true. Both the employee and the employer paid into SS for all the hours the employee worked while under the SS system exactly like every other worker who is invested in the system. As I said, had the employee who was vested in SS when they dropped out of that system not worked at all from that point on, they would not have been penalized. Working for an entity that had an alternative system that replaced SS is exactly the same as not having worked at all for those years as far as the SS system is concerned.
Are you not aware that the employees who are affected by this Bill are NOT credited for any employment outside the system and thus receive NO benefits from that time? The alternative retirement systems that these people worked under are completely independent from SS. There is NO double dipping going on here.
thats a lie, the government does not pay into it.
What are you talking about? I didn’t say government, I said employer.
