The National Divorce

162 years ago we had a civil war. It ended both militarily with the North winning, but also with the federal government expanding its power to make decisions for the whole country over the wishes of individual states. This was made formal by the 13th and 14th amendments that abolished slavery and gave due process to every citizen for the equal protection of the law.

We are now entering a time when the Supreme Court is making rulings that expand states rights- most notably by ending Roe v Wade. Red states are increasingly going their own way in terms of abortion laws, gun rights, school curricula, gay/trans issues, etc.

We are not having a civil war but instead a national divorce where red states and blue states will make their own laws on many matters. In essence, the Court is codifying the divorce by giving far greater powers to the States.

I see a “divorce” as better than a civil war. Will it remain a civil divorce, or move eventually to an uncivil divorce?


Irreconcilable differences


Well, obvious issue is neither side will be really happy because too many are living interspersed. Purple swing states and many communities. So, both sides will continue to wrestle for power.

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Maybe, but considering the majority of these differences are fabrications of politics there potential for good leaders to reconcile them.


“united” states, unless democrats dont get their way


In general I would agree but the Supreme Court is rolling back the fundamental protections brought by the 14th amendment. I’m not sure that even “good leaders” can stop that.

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I can just imagine what a Blue State would look like totally separated from the rest of the country.

Imagine California without Government handouts. A new nation created by Free Stuff for everyone, Drag Queens, Illegal Aliens, legalized baby slaughter, legal drug use, open borders, and of course, non-functioning electric cars. What a swell place that would be.


Step back a bit. Consider when/how roe even became established. Or the EPA.

America has prospered and faltered with and without these paradigms.

The mechanisms of resolution operate on large timescales. Generational.


Fair enough. I see the end of Roe opening up the door to ending a number of other protections. I may be wrong. And I appreciate your optimism.

Protections for who? Certainly not the murdered baby.


LGBTQ+ and anyone who believes in secularism for starters.

As for abortion, what about the mothers whose life is at risk? What about the teenagers raped by their uncle? Are you in the camp of making exceptions, or no?

California’s economy has a larger GDP than many developed countries including Russia.


Roe is part of a larger picture of examining the 14th amendment. Here is part of the language.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Thomas made clear that this decision to overturn Roe leads to reexamining many decisions based on the protection of due process in the 14th. He specifically mentioned sodomy, contraception and gay marriage laws. But really he is opening the door to saying we can have a two state solution where red states will make up their minds on many things without the Court intervening . Thats a big deal.

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And also its taxpayers pay for welfare for many in red states.


It was inevitable, IMO. The republic has grown to large to manage. I think that France is the peak size that a republic can reasonably survive under. And they have tons of their own problems.

It’s better than a bloody civil war, though.

I think in the end (which will most likely take decades to complete) we will end up more like the European Union. A common currency, some elements of common defense, and a defanged federal government that only exists to manage interstate affairs.

I don’t think all 50 states will be independent. Instead it will be collections of states allied into 10-13 nations. With individual constitutions to handle all issues except for common defense and monetary policy, which would be reserved to the rump remnants of the federal government.


Sort of off topic, but why did you capitalize things like “Free Stuff”, “Drag Queens” and “Illegal Aliens”? :thinking:

I have seen you get corrected on this in other threads.

Damn, you just don’t give up.

The 13th and 14th were incorporated with the consent of the states. That enshrines it in the Constitution.

Without it, Constitutionally, we could have a state decide to institute slavery.

What SCOTUS did was say that (today) states can allow or deny abortion. The only way to force all states to stop (or force all states to allow it) is through a Constitutional amendment.

No divorce. It’s how the Constitution works.


Its not inevitable, talk about cutting off ones nose to spite their face…

He’s talking about substantive due process as incorporated by the 14th amendment. It’s how several landmark decisions, including Roe and Obergfell, were decided.

The SC didn’t necessarily just end Roe v Wade. The method that allowed Roe to be judged as constitutional is called into question.

I never stated I supported it.

I just see it as inevitable.

Events such as the one I described would be done slowly over decades. It wouldn’t all just fall apart immediately.

The republic no longer satisfies the needs and desires of the people. That includes all political ideologies.

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