The false notion that all or most of these migrants will benefit us economically. Related question, what must one pay in taxes to support themselves and their family?

Politics
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It’s very clear that when it comes to what’s happening at the border those of us on the “right” and the “left” see things very differently. Those of us on the Right see the world’s poverty and problems flooding into the country and a group of people who will largely be an economic detriment to US taxpayer. While those on the Left view it as one of the keys to economic prosperity. How often do we hear that their here to contribute, their here to produce, they pay more in taxes than most Americans, or even if we have to “invest” in them for a few years they will be tax flow positive shortly after. I was told that what’s happening at the border is one of the things that make America one of the best places to live.

So who’s right? Is it really the case that someone coming from another country living in extreme poverty, with little to no education or marketable skills, and doesn’t speak English will produce enough tax revenue to support themselves and their family?

This prompted me to ask the question, what must one pay in tax revenue to cover the “free stuff” provided by the “government” for themselves and their family? So exactly what are all the publicly funded costs for a person/family? Off of the top of my head there’s the following: Education, Healthcare, Social Security, Housing, Meals, Disability, Unemployment, etc? (If I’m missing something please feel free to include it. Also note I’m not claiming everyone will get this at all times.)

Let’s just consider education and healthcare (I’ll use NJ’s numbers since that’s what I’m familiar with). So imagine a migrant family comes across the border illegally or claiming asylum and has 4 children. In NJ, on average it costs over $20,000/year for most students and potentially over $30,000/year for children of people here illegally or with real or phony asylum claims. For healthcare I’ll just assume the average American cost of $10,000/year. Taking into account that there will be other things they will qualify for as well, you could potentially be looking at a $180,000 yearly public cost for this family of four. Then assuming on average about 12 years at this level the public cost would be over $2,000,000. So assuming the father is the primary bread winner he would have to pay $50,000/year, if he worked for 40 years, in taxes to cover those costs! A person here illegally or any type of asylum seeker would be lucky if their yearly salary was $50,000/year. Now when you add things like Social Security, Medicare, etc., then you could be looking at another 1 million dollars or more in “free stuff”. Now that doesn’t even factor in things like chain migration from which my understanding is that elderly family members would qualify for “free stuff” as well.

The other fallacy assumed by many on the left regarding this as well is this idea we have an unlimited number of jobs for people with little to no education, marketable skills and who don’t speak English. At the pace that we are going on the border one could make the case that there could be additional 4 million people in the country by the end of this year. Then in four years, what another 15-20 million? Exactly how many of these “low-skilled” jobs are out there and/or being produced? I just don’t see exactly how this mass of humanity is going to get anywhere near the quality of work to genuinely support themselves and their families?

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Is it fair to say that there’s actually broad agreement on this?

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So I worked out some numbers for a typical American at NJ rates and if I were to factor in free childcare along with the existing K to 12 costs + 4 years of college + 85 years of healthcare + social security one could easily get to 2 million dollars per individual. That would mean that total taxes paid per year (assuming 40 years of work) would be on average about $50,000.

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One of the huge migration problems I see in the US, is for the second generation (the children of the immigrants) is that they somewhat become people without a country. I saw many Korean govt workers that raised their kids here in the States while they were assigned here from Korea. Their child may have been 3 or 4 when they were first assigned and returned to their native country at 10 or 12.

What would happen is when the child started attending schools back in Korea, is they were somewhat ostracized because they were more American with customs and language and thoughts having gone to grade school here. It was very difficult for them to make the adjustment. The Korean kids would look at them as Americans, and the Americans would look at them as Koreans.

I like how they were working it in Korea though.

The guest workers to Korea (Not US military/ consulate) were allowed to enter the country (only by themselves) and remain for 90 days. Then they had to leave for 30 days before they were allowed to return again. Their family members were not allowed to accompany them. If they were caught in the country beyond 90 days, even by 1 day, they were apprehended and returned to their home country and they were never allowed to re-enter Korea again.

By doing it this way, they got all the advantages of the guest workers, and none of the financial burdens. It worked out pretty good for the guest workers too. They made three times more in Korea, than they would have in their home country. They sent every dime they made back to their families over seas, so their pay really went along way. Their employers had to contract with them before they arrived, and their employers were responsible for housing and feeding them.

I heard an opinion piece a few months ago on NPR. The speaker was saying we really can do a dis-service to other countries by allowing their people to immigrate here. It may be better for the immigrant, but worse for their home country because only the brightest and best from their countries will be able to immigrate out. Thus we are removing those people from their country/society. The very poor remain there, and there is no one left to build those poor countries if all their best talent immigrated else where.

I dont know if that is 100% true, but I do think their is some validity to it.

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I’ve heard that as well. One way of looking at the mess at the border under Biden, it’s as though America has become the dumping ground for all the world’s unemployed labor. There’s this notion by those on the Left that we really should have an open border because it will benefit us from all the additional tax dollars that will be produced. As big Al says “more GDP”. Along with this thinking is that America has an incessant number of jobs for people who are uneducated, have no marketable skills, and don’t speak English. And not only are there all these jobs available for everyone in the world but their also going to be making good money and will easily support themselves and their many children. It won’t cost the US taxpayers a dime!

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The idea that we should import people for our economic benefit instead of for maintaining our liberty and traditions is wrong.

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That’s a bad example.

Most illegals in jersey are single men, who send money back home.

Allan

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Growing our economy is bad?

Allan

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Do you prefer to call it indentured servitude or slavery?

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Free market capitalism. Citizens pay illegals for services rendered.

Allan

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Then illegals pay Coyotes.

We know.

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Nah, they send some of their earning back to Mexico. The rest is spent here in the good old u s of a.

Allan

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This thread is not about illegal immigration, read the OP again. Here’s some more numbers to chew on that would relate to the OP:

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What we should have done decades ago is to have a functional, enforceable and effective guest/seasonable worker program. Most of these these jobs are typically low paying and are not the types of jobs one can support a family on in America, but for the people coming from other countries who would be willing to do this work, where the cost of living is substantially lower, it would be good for them economically. Part of the problem is that for this to be effective a country cannot offer birthright citizenship and free education for children here illegally. All this does is provide incentives for people to come and/or stay here illegally.

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A goodly number of illegals pay very little in taxes by working under the table.

Under cuts the prevailing wages by working even under minimum wage level as well.

The idea most illegals will benefit us is lib BS imo.

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yes, The real problem is that they compete with legal labor. They make wages lower. Dems pretend to be the party of the working man while rents skyrocket and jobs are taken by illegals…

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It’s actually simple math. Take a person with a salary of $100,000. At a 30% tax rate that would be $30,000/year that individual would pay in taxes. Nobody coming across that border with little to no education, marketable skills, and doesn’t speak English is going to make anywhere near $100,000 for one. Secondly, like you said many would work under the table and hence avoid taxes. Finally, they have children at a greater rate than the typical American, which I noted becomes an economic burden born almost entirely on US taxpayers.

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As an actual leftist, let me simplify the more common ‘left’ (as opposed to corporate liberal) view: capitalist exchange negates borders except in colonial extraction regimes where local labor’s exploitation is undermined by the free movement of persons.

Capitalists are fine with exploitable, precarious labor migrating for low-wage jobs. Not leftists, despite the generally ‘left’ disdain for the deadly silliness of nations and borders.

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I started reading the thread . Then I saw people conflating “migrants” and “immigrants” with the illegal aliens that are pouring across the border.

The US has a legal immigration system designed to help America be great. The illegals are not part of that system. Apples and oranges. It’s intentionally deceptive so as to use the great legal immigration system of our country as a cover for illegal border crossers .

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America first Allan

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