The end is near...Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit

zantax · 2020-11-14T05:10:24.061Z

Trump lost to Covid, no President wins that one. Hell, Covid would have tanked Obama. I was expecting a blow out.

GrandWazoo · 2020-11-14T06:21:12.085Z

zantax:

Trump lost to Covid, no President wins that one. Hell, Covid would have tanked Obama. I was expecting a blow out.

That is without merit. I think that Obama would have jumped on the problem. Anyone who says that Trump did what he could is totally ignorant.

Rovin · 2020-11-14T07:48:43.772Z

Are you sure that the state isn’t doing the same investigation and Trumps legal team dropped it because of duplication?

zantax · 2020-11-14T14:27:55.945Z

GrandWazoo:

zantax:

Trump lost to Covid, no President wins that one. Hell, Covid would have tanked Obama. I was expecting a blow out.

That is without merit. I think that Obama would have jumped on the problem. Anyone who says that Trump did what he could is totally ignorant.

Especially evil of Trump to hit the EU so hard with it, we know.

WuWei · 2020-11-14T14:39:26.355Z

GrandWazoo:

zantax:

Trump lost to Covid, no President wins that one. Hell, Covid would have tanked Obama. I was expecting a blow out.

That is without merit. I think that Obama would have jumped on the problem. Anyone who says that Trump did what he could is totally ignorant.

Complete denial of the facts.

JayJay · 2020-11-14T14:41:20.006Z

Piper:

PA State Rep. Russ Diamond

Republican legislature decides Pennsylvania’s electoral votes.

And they passed a law that stated the way they choose them is through the certified popular vote.

They are not permitted to change this method after the election. Congress would void any slate of electors they provided in any other manner…and might even void their electoral voice entirely because safe harbor laws would be violated.

For Constitution lovers, none of you seem to know the Constitution.

Piper · 2020-11-14T15:01:53.558Z

JayJay:

And they passed a law that stated the way they choose them is through the certified popular vote.

They are not permitted to change this method after the election. Congress would void any slate of electors they provided in any other manner…and might even void their electoral voice entirely because safe harbor laws would be violated.

For Constitution lovers, none of you seem to know the Constitution.

The Constitution?

This is about Pennsylvania’s legislative branch of government.

Rank and file lawmakers – dismayed by the complaints rolling in from their districts about confusion at the polls – say it’s their “legislative duty” to delve deeper into what went wrong on Election Day.

“We believe this moment is pivotal and important enough that the General Assembly needs to take extraordinary measures to answer these extraordinary questions,” Rep. Dawn Keefer, R-York, said. “We also believe our representative oversight duty as the Pennsylvania’s legislative branch of government demands that we immediately work to establish a forum where these issues can be thoroughly reviewed in full view of the people of Pennsylvania, for the purpose of determining whether Tuesday’s election was conducted fairly and lawfully.”

WorldWatcher · 2020-11-14T15:06:25.638Z

Piper:

The Constitution?

Yes.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 4
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators.

3 U.S. Code § 1 - Time of appointing electors
U.S. Code
The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President.

The Constitution says Congress sets the day electors are chosen, not the Legislatures. Congress set the date as the 2nd Tuesday after the 1st Monday in November. This year the execution of that law is November 3rd. The electors must be chosen on November 3rd, which happens with the casting of ballots. (That does not mean ballots must be counted by the 3rd, only cast.)
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Piper · 2020-11-14T15:09:16.560Z

WorldWatcher:

Yes.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 4
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators.

3 U.S. Code § 1 - Time of appointing electors
U.S. Code
The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President.

The Constitution says Congress sets the day electors are chosen, not the Legislatures. Congress set the date as the 2nd Tuesday after the 1st Monday in November. This year the execution of that law is November 3rd. The electors must be chosen on November 3rd, which happens with the casting of ballots. (That does not mean ballots must be counted by the 3rd, only cast.)

I know all of that.

I was not discussing electors. It just happened that it was mentioned in the quoted twitter post.

JayJay · 2020-11-14T15:13:17.952Z

Piper:

JayJay:

And they passed a law that stated the way they choose them is through the certified popular vote.

They are not permitted to change this method after the election. Congress would void any slate of electors they provided in any other manner…and might even void their electoral voice entirely because safe harbor laws would be violated.

For Constitution lovers, none of you seem to know the Constitution.

The Constitution?

This is about Pennsylvania’s legislative branch of government.

Rank and file lawmakers – dismayed by the complaints rolling in from their districts about confusion at the polls – say it’s their “legislative duty” to delve deeper into what went wrong on Election Day.

“We believe this moment is pivotal and important enough that the General Assembly needs to take extraordinary measures to answer these extraordinary questions,” Rep. Dawn Keefer, R-York, said. “We also believe our representative oversight duty as the Pennsylvania’s legislative branch of government demands that we immediately work to establish a forum where these issues can be thoroughly reviewed in full view of the people of Pennsylvania, for the purpose of determining whether Tuesday’s election was conducted fairly and lawfully.”

They still do not have the right to choose their own electors.

If they want to change that for the next election, they can try and do so, but for now they will have to abide by the certified results of the state.

And so far, all of Trump’s lawsuits have failed…the Dept of Homeland Security has signed off on the election as the most secure and normal election ever, as has an international watchdog group.

If the pattern holds, all these “complaints” will be discovered to be partisan and vague…just like they were in Michigan, Arizona, and Nevada.

Soon the election will be certified and if the legislature tries to send any electors other than Biden electors to Washington DC, they risk making null and void Pennsylvania’s electoral voice.

This is a partisan effort to make Trump feel better about losing…nothing more.

merickson · 2020-11-14T15:16:49.640Z

This should be the inaugural theme song.

WorldWatcher · 2020-11-14T15:18:34.260Z

Piper:

WorldWatcher:

Yes.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 4
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators.

3 U.S. Code § 1 - Time of appointing electors
U.S. Code
The electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November, in every fourth year succeeding every election of a President and Vice President.

The Constitution says Congress sets the day electors are chosen, not the Legislatures. Congress set the date as the 2nd Tuesday after the 1st Monday in November. This year the execution of that law is November 3rd. The electors must be chosen on November 3rd, which happens with the casting of ballots. (That does not mean ballots must be counted by the 3rd, only cast.)

I know all of that.

I was not discussing electors. It just happened that it was mentioned in the quoted twitter post.

Which is perfectly fine for State Legislatures to review the election process and make State law changes to their election code for future elections. No problem with that.

But the idea that the State can say “he our guy lost so we’re going to throw out the whole election process that existed at the time of the Constitutionally mandated date and choose electors that support ‘out guy’” is preposterous.

Remember the push for “Textualists” on the SCOTUS, guess what? A textualist would not be an activist Justice and call a State Legislature changing the method and count of electors after the fact Constitutional.
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Piper · 2020-11-14T15:39:12.892Z

WorldWatcher:

Which is perfectly fine for State Legislatures to review the election process and make State law changes to their election code for future elections. No problem with that.

The speaker also requested an audit of the June primary. Flaws with the new mail-in system were detected.

WorldWatcher · 2020-11-14T15:46:47.331Z

Piper:

WorldWatcher:

Which is perfectly fine for State Legislatures to review the election process and make State law changes to their election code for future elections. No problem with that.

The speaker also requested an audit of the June primary. Flaws with the new mail-in system were detected.

Good for them. Process improvement is a good thing and we should always attempt to learn from our mistakes.

An examination of the 2020 Election cycles are likely to require some changes in voting laws. I’ve been making some notes to send to my State Legislators and Congressmen:

Voter Registration Commission:

Establishment of a bipartisan commission consisting of equal numbers of State Secretaries of State and equal number of Congressional representatives split between Senators and Representatives. In addition the commission will include recognized legal scholars with a demonstrated expertise in election law. The Post Master General of the United States would be a commission member but limited to providing input on and voting on matters pertaining to the United States Postal Service (USPS).

The commission’s charter would be to analyze and provide input on proposed legislation to establish a national Voter Registration Clearing House (VRCH) under the preview of the Federal Elections Commission. The VRCH would integrate information from State level vital statistics agencies (births/marriages/deaths), the Social Security Administration, Internal Revenue Service, State level Departments of Motor Vehicles, State Level Voter Registration systems and include Technology Experts in the field of data management and security. State level Departments of State responsible for maintaining voter registrations would be able to access the VRCH to identify:

(A) Persons actively registered in the state who are deceased,

(B) Persons actively registered in the state who have changed their residence either outside the state or to a different voting district inside the State, and

(C ) Persons whose right to voter has either been removed by due process of the law or restored by the State restricting the right.

(D) As a data source for State election agencies to notify people of removal from voter rolls due to change of residency.

Vote by Mail Protections:

(A) State would be required to count valid votes received up to X days after election day as long as they are delivered directly from the USPS to election officials. Such ballots are required to be either postmarked by election day or certified by the USPS to have been in their possession by election day.

(B) The USPS will be required to prioritize the delivery of mail-in ballots.

(C ) The USPS will be required to segregate and quarantine all mail-in ballots collected on or before election day no matter when collected.

(D) The USPS will be required to keep all mail-in ballots collected after election day separate and quarantined from those ballots received on or before election day and must be delivered to election officials in separate containers from any mail-in ballot received on or before election day.

(E ) The USPS will be required to certify that mail-in ballots received on or before election day were in the possession of the USPS on or before election day to prevent ballot rejection for an illegible postmark.

Vote Drop Off for Other Persons:

Persons who receive a mail-in ballot and are physically unable to place the ballot in a USPS mail box or official drop box established by local election officials can designate an individual to place the sealed mail in ballot in an authorized container for the purpose of providing the ballot to election officials. Such third party transportation of ballots would be restricted in by the following:

(A) The ballot caster is required to complete the ballot, any documentation of information, and seal both the internal security envelope and outer delivery envelope.

(B) The person authorizing delivery must provide such authorization in writing which will be part of the ballot package. The authorizing individual must provide all of the following: Legal name of the person being authorized, address, social security number or State ID (driving or non-driving ID), and relationship. Non-related individual must provide their voter registration number.

(C ) A legal spouse, legal parent, legal guardian, sibling or child may transport and deliver a mail-in ballot for any legal spouse, legal parent, sibling or child without restriction but must still be documented and identified by the person authorizing the delivery.

(D) A person that is not a legal spouse, legal parent, legal guardian, sibling or child of the person casting the vote may deliver a mail-in ballot for another person when authorized and documented by the person casting the vote but may provide deliver assistance to no more than 5 persons. A person may only provide such assistance if they are a registered voter in the same precinct as the voter and must provide their voter registration number.

(E ) A person that is not a legal spouse, legal parent, legal guardian, sibling or child of the person casting the vote will be in violation of Federal election law and subject to criminal prosecution for a misdemeanor subject to a $500 dollar fine per instance over 5 and up to 1-year of incarceration total.

Vote Counting:

(A) Local election officials are authorized and encouraged to perform security pre-screening of mail-in and drop box ballots upon receipt of the ballot package and are not required to wait until election day to start that process.

(B) Pre-screening should be commenced as early as practicable so that ballot inconsistencies can be addressed, the voter contacted to and corrective action taken.

(C ) After pre-screen the inner ballot envelop will be clearly marked as either “Accepted” or “Rejected”. Accepted ballots will be grouped separately from rejected ballots to facilitate security and counting.

(D) Accepted security envelopes will be opened and counted on or after election day subject to normal vote counting.
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JayJay · 2020-11-14T15:49:15.041Z

Piper:

WorldWatcher:

Which is perfectly fine for State Legislatures to review the election process and make State law changes to their election code for future elections. No problem with that.

The speaker also requested an audit of the June primary. Flaws with the new mail-in system were detected.

Flaws not fraud.

And not on a scale that would turn the vote.

And the flaws were of a type that would have more likely suppressed mail in vote, not create new votes.

And that would have hurt Biden, not helped him.

Piper · 2020-11-14T16:08:56.393Z

JayJay:

And that would have hurt Biden, not helped him.

June Primary? Biden, Sanders?

JayJay · 2020-11-14T16:14:09.342Z

Piper:

JayJay:

And that would have hurt Biden, not helped him.

June Primary? Biden, Sanders?

By the time Pennsylvania voted, Sanders had withdrawn from the race.

Piper · 2020-11-14T16:29:32.996Z

JayJay:

By the time Pennsylvania voted, Sanders had withdrawn from the race.

How could it have hurt Biden?

Don’t answer.

Blackwolf · 2020-11-14T16:32:19.486Z

zantax:

Trump lost to Covid, no President wins that one. Hell, Covid would have tanked Obama. I was expecting a blow out.

Trump lost to his mismanagement of COVID.

What could he have done differently? Not lie and downplay the severity of the pandemic would have been a good start.

JayJay · 2020-11-14T16:35:09.930Z

Piper:

JayJay:

By the time Pennsylvania voted, Sanders had withdrawn from the race.

How could it have hurt Biden?

Don’t answer.

It would have hurt him in the general.

It probably did hurt him in the general…thousands of ballots were never mailed by the USPS in key states like Pennsylvania and Michigan and Florida and Texas.

You know…the ones DeJoy was ordered by the court to make sure got delivered?

And he just blew off the court order?