I grew up in Thailand and my father is a professor of Thai and buddhism studies so I know a few things here. At thew core you are right- Buddha taught the four noble truths and the eight fold path and that is at the basis of buddhism. In practice however, buddhism is a wild menagerie of different practices that include magical, supernatural and animistic devotion. The concepts of karma, making merit and reincarnation are wedded to buddhism. Buddha definitely limited how much he spoke of magical practices- but in real life that has never gone away.
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My my aren’t we judgmental. Were you once a Christian? Maybe in a previous life.
I was not bragging. I was answering a question (lite accusation) that Idon’t know
Buddhism from Hinduism.
Among my other long experiences with Asian buddhists,
In Asia in my howling youth I ran with, among others, a pack of Tibetan expats on Taiwan. They, or rather their parents, believed the 14th and current Dalai Lama is the original Buddha reincarnated and can chose the form of his next incarnation.
In Colorado, where he visits he inspires a bunch of local hippies. They still follow their hippy philosophy but call it Buddhism. So long as they don’t portray the actual Buddhists as believing in free sex and long hair and beatnik poetry etc. they do no harm and the term is a convenient one.
He’s cool with that and so am I.
Chill. Call yourself whatever you want. Just don’t misrepresent them is what I am asking. Don’t try to claim they believe or practice what you or I’mright believes or practices is all I’m saying.
To be clear my last post was addressing some previous comments, not directed at your post.
As I said in my last post, folk religion and indigenous beliefs enter Buddhism. The same thing occurs with Christianity. it is not grounds for falling into hell just for having mistaken ideas or be simple minded. One need not be a Buddhist or Christian scholar to reach the goal and in fact it can be an impediment if one studies but does not practice and deepen faith.
Understanding karma, merit and past present and future etc. and how that all works, comes with faith and practice. One can seek and learn to discern who is a true teacher and who is not.
The initial post on this thread is my focus on this thread.
[quote=“Orygun, post:19, topic:462”]. . .
protective tattoos, ascribing spiritual power to certain places, buddha images and spirit houses. I would venture to say that the average Thai buddhist is more connected to ritual and magical practices and has less of an understanding of buddhist scripture.
Its interesting how buddhism is practiced in the West- very focused on meditation and silent retreats, etc-
[/quote]
That is kinda sorta what I am saying.
If some hippy wants people to stop being uptight about sex, but start being uptight about eating meat or collecting wealth, and believes camping, Ken Kesey and Jim Morrison are the path to understanding that, fine. No harm no foul.
If that same person denies an eternal soul, reincarnation etc., again fine.
If that same person finds inspiration from Buddhism the way Mohandas Ghandi found inspiration from many works of many religions, once again. Okey dokey.
Calling the above home-spun folk relgion Buddhism is a stretch. It would be as much a stretch as forming a belief system based on riding donkeys across palm leaves, and overturning temple tables then calling it Christianity. BUT STILL, no harm no foul.
The faux pas, the misuse of words, comes when one misrepresents what actual Buddhists actually do and believe and implies “They are like me. They don’t believe in prayer wheels and dog reincarnation, nor in praying to Boddisatvas. They are all about achieving internal peace in this life.”
That is simply factually incorrect, like calling a sphere a cube.
Gewd thread. Just another reason why subscribing to some religion is just kind of silly, or asserting some sort of authority over a term/context. I align with core Buddhist tenants like the eightfold path, 4 noble truths, the concept of impermanence and the general concept of rebirth. However I don’t really subscribe to karmic rebirth. I definitely don’t subscribe to a belief in some eternal “soul” that is somehow separate from a body. But I think a stripped down version of Buddhism is the most practical form of “religion” while still aligning with objective evidence derived from scientific processes. Having said all that, everything should be questioned/evidence based. Buddhism to me is a tool for conceptualizing the “inner world” - not a statement of fact, and should not involve worship or assertion of truths to mythology that would be “magic”. The debate over what is and is not “buddhism” is just a semantic/power play of ownership.
Analogy:
Imagine a kid who goes to college and spends all his time and energy focusing on beer and babes and football and defying the man demanding campus reform.
He is seeking pleasure now, and is totally unaware of the 50, 60 or 70 years of his permanent life that could be made better if he stopped focusing on that but instead focused on learning the stuff that will keep him happily fat and wealthy in the “forever after,” that is permanent life after college.
Wow. That guy really blew a golden opportunity.
No imagine that EVEN during those 4 years he will never be able to drink enough beer, have enough sex or watch his team win enough football games, so that EVEN during those four years he is unhappy, (suffering) not because he lacks sex and beer but because sex and beer will not TRULY bring him happiness in his short college life.
He is not suffering from lack of sex and beer. He us suffering BECAUSE of his desire for sex and beer.
And more specifically, his attachment to those items. Since things aren’t permanent, the things we attach ourselves to eventually go away - including our health. So we suffer (generally speaking, obviously there is suffering/pain you have no control over) because we desire what we are attached to, and the eventual loss brings us pain. That’s not to say never to suffer, or never to attach yourself, but being mindful of our attachments, controlling them, is a primary mode of buddhism. This could be extended into the concept of self, and the attachment to a notion that we are a singular “self” rather than a complex interaction of fleeting phenomenon - thoughts, feelings, perceptiin, etc. I prefer to focus inward on how this affects me, rather than being a defeatist, calling myself inherently ‘bad/sinful’ or praying for a savior. It’s up to my actions and practice to break the cycle
Im glad my analogy did not distract. Sometimes I make very poor analogies.
I gotta work.
Bye for now.
And since this life is temporary, but your soul is immortal, then,
even if life were other than repeated suffering,
even if health and wealth and sex and earthly pleasures of food and wine and drugs and family and political victory, etc. etc. could bring you happiness in the material world, to what end is that?
Compared to all eternity, this life is but a fleeting moment.
Accepting defeat? Sounds like a ego thing, and clinging to one’s pride is like clinging to any other source of temporal ephemeral fleeting pleasure in the material world, is it not?
The first two of the four noble truths are acceptance of defeat. To accept them we must first accept that “all this time” we have “been going about things all wrong.”
We must accept defeat in our ways and views in order to accept the first two truths.
Buddhism views mundane happiness in this world as transient happiness. But at the same time, Buddhism does not reject the importance of this kind of mundane happiness. It warns of attachment to earthly desire, but also teaches, “earthly desires is equal to enlightenment,” because earthly desire leads to seeking enlightenment in a causal way and compares it to burning firewood to get heat.
There is enlightenment, mutually possesed in all the ten basic Life states, even within the three lower Lifestates of hell, hunger and animality. I will clarify Buddhist Lifestates, mutual possession and the primary Law of Causation in Buddhism further on.
Buddhism is not other-worldly or only concerned with a future heaven after death. Past, Present and Future (the three times) exists in the present moment. This refers to the Middle Way and the Law of cause and effect.
Gautama warned, “if you see an overturned cart on the road ahead, this is a warning to the cart behind.” Past result is a lesson in the present, of a result in the future. This is obvious yet ignorant people often repeat the same mistakes.
Real Mahayana Buddhism is not withdrawal from the world. Peace and security of the land is very central, Patriotism, defending the nation and protecting and helping others around you is consistent with Buddhism.
Buddhism stresses oneness of person and environment. “Environment” is a direct reflection of the inner lifestate. Buddhism views, war, social evils and misery, natural disasters, diseases, fertility of the soil, severe weather, human discord, foreign invasion, as indicative of the collective Lifestate, like a mirror reflection and an expedient means leading to the practice to eradicate sufferings.
Accepting defeat? Sounds like a ego thing, and clinging to one’s pride is like clinging to any other source of temporal ephemeral fleeting pleasure in the material world, is it not?<<<
The practice of Buddhism and the Four Noble Truths is the opposite of “accepting defeat.” False pride or lower ego is anathema in Buddhism.
For a human being to fail to see the reality of their own lower Lifestates and not practice to master them is “accepting defeat.” Faith and Practice is essential.
For instance, human beings that ignore their actual animal existence are blind to reality. A human being is a higher animal but animal nevertheless, despite a divine potential Buddhahood, they have teeth, claws, a rectum and reproductive organs and limited lifespan that are a source of severe suffering. This is reality as it is.
Lower animals too have inner Buddha Nature and through a long period of time can expiate negative karma and again be born as human which is a rare opportunity.
The question of an “eternal soul” transmigrating from one life to another is misunderstood. In Buddhism, the Atman is neither existent nor non-existent and considered emptiness. Whether taught as Atman or Anataman, explanations like that are considered “Upaya,” or “expedient means” and only the Middle Way is true. Understanding Upaya is important to understanding Christianity as well.
The parable in the original post is talking about the use of Expedient Means. This is further called “The Buddha’s Secret, Expedient Means of Nirvana.” Without inevitable death hanging over a human being, they fail to seek Buddhahood. But this parable above, contains a deeper meaning as well.
All beings have a core of the highest Lifestate of Buddhahood as potential. It is false pride to fail to see reality and a good pride based in faith, to see one’s inner, divine Buddha nature and aspire to practice as a Bodhisattva to attain Buddhahood for yourself and all other beings.
The ten basic Lifestates in Buddhism are as follows: 1. Hell or Suffering, 2. Hunger or desire, 3. Animality-the nature of beasts 4. Anger, 5. Humanity or Tranquility, 6. Rapture or Heaven (all transient) 7. Learning or (Arhat) 8. Self-Realization (Pratyekabuddha), 9. Bodhisattva or mercy, 10. Buddhahood or Supreme and Perfect Enlightenment. The term “mutual possession” means that all Ten Lifestates, contain all ten within. These Lifestates are all momentary conditions of life and manifest according to Ten factors that are a natural sequence of Cause and Effect, all existing in the present moment.
The first two of the four noble truths are acceptance of defeat. To accept them we must first accept that “all this time” we have “been going about things all wrong.” We must accept defeat in our ways and views in order to accept the first two truths.
Better to admit to ignorance and stupidity then defeat. The “three poisons” of Greed, Anger and Stupidity, are causes of defeat.
The 4 Noble Truths are objective reality and do not mean accepting defeat in any way.
The next most basic buddhist term to learn, (much easier to understand than the Ten Lifestates,) in order to comprehend the Fourth Noble Truth, is called the “Twelve Links” which delineates a cause and effect sequence beginning with ignorance and it’s natural fruits and leading to the eradication of suffering by eliminating the first link of ignorance.
Nothing in Buddhism is attained through understanding theory alone with can become an impediment, where a person gets hung up and self-satisfued, in the 7th and 8th Lifestate of Arhat and Pratyekabuddha. Only with faith and practice can one enter the Buddha Way.
The twelve links enumerated forward and backward
due to the condition of ignorance, action arises;
due to the condition of action, consciousness arises;
due to the condition of consciousness, name and form arise;
due to the condition of name and form, the six sense spheres arise;
due to the condition of the six sense spheres, contact arises;
due to the condition of contact, feeling arises;
due to the condition of feeling, attachment arises;
due to the condition of attachment, grasping arises;
due to the condition of grasping, the potentialized level of karma called existence arises;
due to the condition of existence, birth arises;
due to the condition of birth, aging and death arise.
Thus the whole mass of Suffering.
when ignorance ceases, action ceases;
when action ceases, consciousness ceases;
when consciousness ceases, name and form cease;
when name and form cease, the six sense spheres cease;
when the six sense spheres cease, contact ceases;
when contact ceases, feeling ceases;
when feeling ceases, attachment ceases;
when attachment ceases, grasping ceases;
when grasping ceases, the potentialized level of karma called “existence” ceases;
when the potentialized level of karma called “existence” ceases, birth ceases;
when birth ceases, aging and death cease.
Thus suffering ceases.
The above is called the 12 Links or Nidanas.
It is a basic explanation of cause and effect based on the Four Noble Truths.
Those who interpret Buddhism as atheism because of objective explanations are mistaken. Atheist activists often call Buddhism Atheism and use Buddhism to attack Christianity. That shows a very shallow grasp of Buddhism.
Likewise, some Buddhists who have a shalliow grasp of Christianity, use Buddhism to criticize Christianity. That is equally as mistaken and are not aware of how Buddhism is central to the teachings of Jesus.
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Correction Buddhism does have some Spiritual Metaphysical in that can be Magical in nature and those of you denying it need to read more on Buddhism.
Karam is the one of the MAIN sources of Magic Supernatural aspect.
Karma
Karma is a Sanskrit word from the root “Kri” to do or to make and simply means “action.” It operates in the universe as the continuous chain reaction of cause and effect. It is not only confined to causation in the physical sense but also it has moral implications. “A good cause, a good effect; a bad cause a bad effect” is a common saying. In this sense karma is a moral law.
The World
Traditionally, Buddhism teaches the existence of the ten realms of being. At the top is Buddha and the scale descends as follows: Bodhisattva (an enlightened being destined to be a Buddha, but purposely remaining on earth to teach others), Pratyeka Buddha (a Buddha for himself), Sravka (direct disciple of Buddha), heavenly beings (superhuman [angels?]), human beings, Asura (fighting spirits), beasts, Preta (hungry ghosts), and depraved men (hellish beings).
Source:
https://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm
Buddhism is actually pretty interesting in that it follows the “Law of the One”
The One Infinite Creator
The Law of One states that there is only one, and that one is the Infinite Creator (4.20), which Ra also calls “Infinite Intelligence” and “Intelligent Infinity.” It is impossible to describe the “one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole” but It can be activated or potentiated (28.1). Each portion of the creation contains, paradoxically, the whole (13.13).
Source: https://www.lawofone.info
The idea of the Law of One is that our “Soul” travels thru different Dimensional Densities
First density is the density of awareness, in which the planet moves out of the timeless state into physical manifestation. Its elements are earth, air, water, and fire (13.16). On earth, after matter had coalesced and space/time had begun to “unroll its scroll of livingness” (29.11), first density took about two billion years (76.13)
Second density is the density of growth, in which what we call biological life emerges and evolves into greater and greater complexity (9.13). Second density on earth took about 4.6 billion years (76.13).
Third density is the density of self-awareness and the first density of consciousness of the spirit (13.21). It is the “axis upon which the creation turns” because in it entities choose the way (either service to others or service to self) in which they will further their evolution toward the Creator (76.16). Third density is much shorter than the other densities, taking only 75,000 years (6.15).
Fourth density is the density of love or understanding. Those who have successfully chosen a path come together with others of like mind in what Ra calls a “social memory complex” in order to pursue that path, either loving self or loving others (20.36, 48.6). Fourth density lasts approximately 30 million years; fourth-density lifespans are approximately 90 thousand years (43.13, 43.11).
Fifth density is the density of light or wisdom (25.11). Lessons are often learned individually rather than as a social memory complex (43.14). Fifth-density entities are beautiful, by our standards, because they can consciously shape their physical forms (62.21, 90.5)
Sixth density is the density of unity, in which love and wisdom are blended together (33.20). The two paths reunite as those on the service-to-self path, realizing that they cannot successfully master the lessons of unity without opening their hearts to others, switch their polarity to positive (78.25). Ra is sixth-density; their sixth-density cycle is 75 million years (14.19, 14.21).
Seventh density is the gateway density, in which we once again become one with all (16.22). It is “a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.” (41.16)
Eighth density is also the beginning of the first density of the next Creation (28.15). It is “both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself.” (52.12)
Several Ancient Alien Theorists follow the concept of the Law of One
You can follow the anti-path of the law of the one as well up the path as well.
It is a fascinating read. And can see how many religions seem to take from it.
They say that Jesus and even Buddha would have been a Sixth Density being trying to teach the us about the Infinite Intelligence to get our planet onto the next Density. That the New Testament has more to do with the Law of the One while the Old is the anti of the Law of the one.
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Karma means Cause and Effect. This is natural causation. There is no “magic” about it. There are events called “miracles” but they are also based in Cause and Effect. There are some scriptures that use the word that can be translated as “magic,” but usages like that are expressions, like one would say “life is a miracle,” or “the flower grew like magic.”
Science Fiction Writer Arthur C. Clarke wrote “advanced technology would be indistiguishable from Magic” This implies that it “looks like magic,” to someone that does not understand how something works, like a primitive person seeing a TV set, might think it is “magic.” Likewise, a miracle in Buddhism or Christianity, may appear to be “magic,” and a critic of these religions may denigrate them as conjuring or superstition. The “power of faith works miracles.” does not depart from Cause and Effect. The word “spiritualism,” was and is used to denigrate Buddhism and Christianity as well.
Buddhism explains everything as the Law of Cause and Effect, but in Sutras, there are “expedient means” so that those with superstitious beliefs may gradually come to understand. “Gods and Angels” represent functions of the Ten Lifestates.
What one may see in the mind during meditation and prayer such as visionary experience, arises from the 7th, 8th consciousness leading to the 9th consciousness or Buddhahood. The 8th Consciousness, Alaya Consciousness, in particular is called storehouse consciousness or “karma storage,” preliminary visionary experiences reside in this awakening.
The “World” in the heading you quoted is the same as the “Ten Lifestates” I have written about above. They also more fully explain how the Single Law, the Supreme Law manifests.
UFO religion and “New Age,” psychic Channeling and Transpersonal Psychologies, always uses, terms previously found in the most Ancient Scriptures of Vedic Brahmanism, Sumerian, Hinduism, Egyptian, Zoroastrian, Judaism, Greek, Buddhism and Christianity, Gnostic, Celtic, Kabbala, Islam, Native American, Polynesian and many other old terminologies and mythologies.
For instance the UFO religion you posted uses “Ra” an ancient Egyptian God, derived from the “Pyramid Texts” found on the walls of the great pyramids.
There are passages in Buddhism and Christianity that expressly warns against attachment to the occult, “fortune tellers,” and those claiming, hetrodox, psychic powers. Buddhism clairifies the meaning of the Alaya consciousness and how that works. This is not denying people’s subjective visions or experiences, but warning that attachment to those visions and experiences can be like regurgitations of Karmic memories that are illusory. It is warned not to become hung up in the Alaya consciousness without Middle Way practice that supersedes illusory meditation experience. The most beneficial prayer and meditation seeks to stop the mind and observe it, not to follow thoughts themselves into dead ends.
Actually the Law of One is what is said to have influenced all them Hence Ra from the Law of One was the original Being who was known to the Egyptians.
So the Law of One is the source according to the Ra.
I know that is what is being said by those channelers, i woud recommend you study the Saddharma Pudarika Sutra to understand Buddhism. Plagerism is common in “New Age” because they think their experiences qualify them to do so. Again, these experiences are like replayed old movies in the mind, stored in the Alaya consciousness. For more correct practice, prayer and meditation must be based on stopping the mind and observing it, not tuning into Alaya consciousness. Study these things.
Do a search for “Lotus Sutra Index” and you will find the entire sutra.
For fun, here is a link to a write up a UFO afficianado/blogger wrote about Aliens contact in the Lotus Sutra.
Again, do not get hung up in it.
I shoud have mentioned the above blogger made a number of factual errors in his article, such as the dating of the composition of the Sutra which was composed in the 1st and 2nd century AD. The author is no expert on the Lotus Sutra, but it is an attempt to fit Buddhism into UFOlogy.
The parable in the original post is referred to again, later in the Chapter:
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Feel no doubt concerning it, O sages, and leave off all uncertainty: the word I here pronounce is really true; my word is never false.
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For even as that physician (parable) skilled in devices, for the sake of his sons whose notions were perverted, said that he had died although he was still alive, and even as no sensible man, would charge that physician with falsehood; (hearing their father had died, sons who had drank poison, were shocked to their senses and took the remedy, their father had left for them. They recovered and then their father returned.)
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So am I the father of the world, the Self born, the Healer, the Protector of all creatures. Knowing them to be perverted, infatuated, and ignorant I teach final rest, myself not being at rest.
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What reason should I have to continually manifest myself? When men become unbelieving, unwise, ignorant, careless, fond of sensual pleasures, and from thoughtlessness run into misfortune,
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Then I, who know the course of the world, declare: I am so and so, (and consider): How can I incline them to enlightenment? how can they become partakers of the Buddha-laws?" ----Saddharma Pundarika Sutra.
What is being said here between the lines, needs to be understood.
The Buddha said, those with ears must hear.
It’s a father concept imho
And it’s curious that a father concept came to Buddha’s about the same time that the Hebrews made the covenant with Abraham.
The covenant was to teach the world about one God, the father of all creation. Buddha took the concept to a godless/worldly type of father.
If “I” knew the course of the world, seems to me there would be no reason to ask myself how to enlighten people because I would already be offering all that I can give to make enlightenment happen and realize that evolution is part of the fathers slow process of everything including enlightenment.
A worldly father don’t see the big picture that a universal father can imho.
