The decline of the middle class and the causes of it

zantax · 2018-07-15T19:21:30.795Z

WuWei:

zantax:

If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either.

Pssst. We are.

We are importing them yes, but it hasn’t reached the level of paying American doctors a pittance quite yet. Or to be more accurate, it has just about reached that level for general practitioners which is why there is a shortage that will get worse.

mobulis · 2018-07-15T19:27:26.167Z

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

zantax · 2018-07-15T19:33:15.591Z

mobulis:

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

No, there isn’t only jobs that do not offer enough pay to attract them. As in it isn’t that they won’t pick lettuce, it is that they won’t do so for minimum wage.

mobulis · 2018-07-15T19:34:34.487Z

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

No, there isn’t only jobs that do not offer enough pay to attract them. As in it isn’t that they won’t pick lettuce, it is that they won’t do so for minimum wage.

Which mean they don’t want them and pay is the reason why.

zantax · 2018-07-15T19:36:14.475Z

Or if you prefer, there is no job they will do if the reward doesn’t meet or exceed the sacrifice of time and effort required to do it.

zantax · 2018-07-15T19:37:05.741Z

mobulis:

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

No, there isn’t only jobs that do not offer enough pay to attract them. As in it isn’t that they won’t pick lettuce, it is that they won’t do so for minimum wage.

Which mean they don’t want them and pay is the reason why.

Then the answer is to raise the pay until they will, not bring in migrants to do them for less.

mobulis · 2018-07-15T19:40:33.207Z

zantax:

Then the answer is to raise the pay until they will, not bring in migrants to do them for less.

Why would employers do that?

madasheck · 2018-07-16T01:52:11.379Z

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

No, there isn’t only jobs that do not offer enough pay to attract them. As in it isn’t that they won’t pick lettuce, it is that they won’t do so for minimum wage.

Which mean they don’t want them and pay is the reason why.

Then the answer is to raise the pay until they will, not bring in migrants to do them for less.

Tell that to your management types with their eyes glued to the bottom line. They’ll never do that when profit is their only motive.

zantax · 2018-07-16T04:31:18.542Z

madasheck:

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

mobulis:

zantax:

Psst there is no such things as jobs Americans do not want, only jobs that don’t pay enough to make them want them. If we imported doctors from overseas and paid them a pittance, Americans would no longer want to be doctors either. If being a maid in a hotel paid a million dollars a year, would any Americans want that job?

*note the sum of a million dollars was used for illustrative purposes to get you to admit a pay level obviously exists where Americans would find the job worth taking.

So yes there is such a thing as job’s American’s don’t want.

No, there isn’t only jobs that do not offer enough pay to attract them. As in it isn’t that they won’t pick lettuce, it is that they won’t do so for minimum wage.

Which mean they don’t want them and pay is the reason why.

Then the answer is to raise the pay until they will, not bring in migrants to do them for less.

Tell that to your management types with their eyes glued to the bottom line. They’ll never do that when profit is their only motive.

I’d rather tell it to the people who are responsible for keeping illegal immigrants out of the country, the feds.

TheRedComet · 2018-07-16T05:31:42.138Z

I was surprised to learn tonight that my fiancé’s best friend only makes about 4 more dollars per hour than I do if you convert my salary into hourly pay.

She’s a RN. I’m a manager at an auto parts store.

TheRedComet · 2018-07-16T05:43:38.841Z

If the work would have been more steady I would have kept cleaning repo house trailers for the rest of my life.

I got paid 400 dollars for single wides and 800 dollars four double wides. Never actually did a triple but I would have pulled 1200 off of those had I gotten one.

The work was easy. Most of the time I could declutter a single wide in about 2-4 hours and double wides in about 4-6 hours depending on how messy the previous owners were.

Some bad ones took me 12 hours. Those were the really rough ones. Its depressing how trashy some people are. I took several abandoned dogs to the animal rescue center. They were literally left on chains with no water or food. Near starvation.

Basically I was working for a mortgage company. Due to DOT regulations in Mississippi (I’m sure most states are like this) the house trailers have to have all objects that can move around either secured or removed. In the case of repos it was simply removed. It didn’t have to be spotless; all objects that could cause damage had to be taken out. It was cheaper for the mortgage companies to contract people than create paid positions for the job.

Man it was a good gig for the two years I did it. Not only was the money fanatastic but I got to keep anything I wanted. I ended up with a brand new 55 inch TV, about 20 DVD/Blu-Ray players that I sold, quite a few video game consoles, even a nice leather jacket and a katana. The jackpot was a nice collection of paintball guns.

The catch was that the work was sporadic because they never hired the same people for every job. So some months were great full time gigs and others I’d go without work.

CanadianJudo · 2018-07-16T05:46:11.214Z

Prices and inflation has gone up over 100% since the 70’s and wages have gone up maybe 5%.

Call_me_Ishmael · 2018-07-16T09:57:35.954Z

lulubee:

zantax:

Oh and the shrinking middle class? The majority of them moved up in class, not down.

Looks like someone didn’t even bother to read the study.

An influx of poor people would create those statistics and STILL permit those previous middle classers to move up.

Janet_Miller · 2018-07-16T12:04:53.886Z

It isn’t 1970 any more. I’ll pass on one bathroom for six people & “visiting relatives” as “vacation”, thank you very much.

And I think it’s great the choice for both to work is available. It’s avoiding putting all of one’s eggs in the same basket.

What does one do should the primary breadwinner, say, get laid off? They’ve already got that second income to make due rather than someone needing to pick up something else STAT.

zantax · 2018-07-16T13:16:48.420Z

CanadianJudo:

Prices and inflation has gone up over 100% since the 70’s and wages have gone up maybe 5%.

Nonsense. Link?

Eagle-Keeper · 2018-07-17T23:15:43.900Z

“Oh and the shrinking middle class? The majority of them moved up in class, not down.”

Someone pointed this out but here is just one quote from the article:

“The shrinking of the middle class at the national level, to the point where it may no longer be the economic majority in the U.S., was documented in an earlier analysis by the Pew Research Center. The changes at the metropolitan level, the subject of this in-depth look at the American middle class, demonstrate that the national trend is the result of widespread declines in localities all around the country.”

Eagle-Keeper · 2018-07-17T23:22:40.263Z

Health insurance and property taxes amount to $25,000. So if one has salary of $75,000 that is already knocked down to $50,000 before accounting for Federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, medicare tax, sales taxes, etc.

Eagle-Keeper · 2018-07-17T23:31:23.799Z

You can include NJ in that that as well!

zantax · 2018-07-18T09:10:01.897Z

Eagle-Keeper:

Health insurance and property taxes amount to $25,000. So if one has salary of $75,000 that is already knocked down to $50,000 before accounting for Federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, medicare tax, sales taxes, etc.

Right like I said, modern health care is expensive, it’s an expense 1960-70’s blue collar workers didn’t have. They had much cheaper but less modern and effective health care instead.

Eagle-Keeper · 2018-07-19T05:14:01.084Z

I was thinking about this and I would say that Globalization was definitely a factor but here in NJ cost of living expenses have played just as big a part if not more. Housing and property taxes have substantially outpaced salary increases. Also regarding Globalization it is likely the number one reason for income inequality.