The census question and the big freaken socialist/communist lie by omission

More blather… The fact remains, you continue to cut and paste and Justice Roberts still sits on the bench…

In this case (census administration under the APA) it seems that congress has legislated judicial review into the law. Rather than attempt to legislate every detail of administering the census, they have granted power to the executive to implement (via department rule making). The APA legislates the requirements on the executive for administrative rule making and also the requirements for judicial review.

If it is impermissible under the constitution for the court to participate in this manner, it suggests that the APA itself is unconstitutional.

The question that needs to be answered is if the constitution permits the legislative body to explicitly permit or require (or prohibit) judicial review within specific legislation.

If it is deemed impermissible under the constitution I expect that the power to add questions to the census would not fall to the Executive but rather to Congress as they hold sole power to legislate the manner of the census.

If you dispel all the verbiage, you can see clearly that Roberts was not deciding on wisdom of legislation but on whether appropriate process was followed.

The plaintiffs did not challenge the Commerce Dept’s ability to create census questions but that legally mandated processes were not followed. The power to create census questions is balanced, it is not an indiscriminate power to rewrite the census.

DOJ lawyers told the court that printing had to begin by June 30. The court fast tracked the judgment. Now Trump and Barr are acting as if that statement to the court did not matter because they did not get the ruling they wanted.

That is why powers are limited by design.

You can bury me in irrelevant quotes from Potter Stewart or talk directly to the issue. Even The DOJ legal team has bailed on this one.

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The question remains: will they print the new census with the question is defiance of the court?

"In Chief Justice Roberts’ majority decision Thursday tentatively rejecting a citizenship question on the 2020 census, he rejected the Trump Administration’s “voting rights” argument as “contrived,” saying executive branch officials must “offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public.” LINK

It is not the courts job to “scrutinize” policy making decisions and legislative acts. The courts only job is to determine if policy making decisions and legislation does not violate the provisions of our Constitution. To allow Roberts to second guess policy making decisions and legislation when they do not violate the provisions of our Constitution, is to allow our courts to violate our system’s separation of powers doctrine.

But just to confirm what I state above, here is a number of legitimate sources commenting on our judicial branch of government second guessing the wisdom of policy making decisions and legislation:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)

Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:

”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

……we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress’ action, however, is not within our province to second guess.

And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

“The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice.” – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violated the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction and now he is interfering with a legitimate and constitutional question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

Why do you support our Supreme Court usurping a power not granted?

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

As I expected, you are attempting to bury the truth in citations. Just take the first one – it completely mischaracterizes what Roberts did. Why read on, when you’re argument is based on a fallacy – that Roberts ruled against the question itself.

Your question to me about the Supreme Court usurping a power is moot: it is based on your fallacious assertion that the court ruled against the question itself. That, in turn, renders all your citations irrelevant to the matter at hand.

What has emerged is that the presentation by the Administration’s lawyers rested on one or more lies: the obvious one that the Administration was looking to improve enforcement of the Voting Rights Act and the unclear one about the need to resolve the issue by June 30. The court accelerated the process in response to the June 30 claim and on July 1 the Administration began printing census forms. Now the Administration is acting as if June 30 was not a hard deadline.

Why do you support lying to the Supreme Court as a means to achieve ones; ends?

I await two pages of citations on why it is sound Constitutional practice to presentation false arguments to the Supreme Court. Happy googling.

Just checked… Still there…

https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Since June 30th was apparently not a hard deadline, does anyone go to jail for making false statements to the Supreme Court?

Is that a crime?

Justice Roberts has undermined our democratic system!

There you go again, misrepresenting what I have posted. My “argument” is not based on a “… fallacious assertion that the court ruled against the question itself.”

My argument is that Justice Roberts is not, by our Constitution, authorized to second guess or “scrutinize” policy making decisions and legislation, and in striking them down assert the purpose for which they were adopted are “contrived”.

It makes no difference if the purpose for which a policy making decision is “contrived”, or even if its purpose is lied about, which is what politicians do on a daily basis. The Court’s job is only to determine if policy making decisions and legislation violates the provisions of our Constitution. And in this case, the Court has indicated the question being placed on the census form does not violate the Constitution, but doing so [placing the question on the census form] requires the Executive branch to “offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public.”

What Justice Roberts and his ilk are attempting to do is overturn an election by which the people have decided to place in power a President who is willing to undo the tyranny of a past president. And under the cloak of “scrutinizing” the purpose for which our President has acted, instead of deciding if his actions are prohibited by our Constitution, Justice Roberts is working to overturn what has been decided at the ballot box! And to this tyrannical action our very own court has stated:

"For the removal of unwise laws [and in this case a policy making decision] . . . appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)

Why do you support Justice Roberts’ attack on our democratic system and his desire to overturn the consequences of an election?

JWK

“The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice.” – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

OMG, this thread is full of hysterics.

Well of course you did , its an attention span thing! :roll_eyes:

I believe in short and to the point. Those that don’t want to reinstate the census question are the same that don’t want voter ID, they want to overthrow the Republic with illegal votes.

Yah, no it’s not.

Voter ID and the census issues are not the same thing. Maybe to you it is though. It’s all about politics.

Quick update… Justice Roberts is still on the bench…

You continue to misconstrue Justice Roberts ruling in your campaign to drown us in quotations. Justice Roberts did not second guess policy or reject on the basis of their purpose – he ruled on a matter of process.

I appreciate that you think lying is of no matter. I would be interested to see what you were posting back in the day when Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury. I assume you must have been one of his strongest defenders, since you are now stating that lying is of no import.

BREVITY IS THE SOUL OF WIT – William Shakespeare

For brevity and relying on Justices Roberts’ own words:

"In Chief Justice Roberts’ majority decision Thursday tentatively rejecting a citizenship question on the 2020 census, he rejected the Trump Administration’s “voting rights” argument as “contrived,” saying executive branch officials must “offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public.” LINK

What Justice Roberts and his ilk are attempting to do is overturn an election by which the people have decided to place in power a President who is willing to undo the tyranny of a past president. And under the cloak of “scrutinizing” the purpose for which our President has acted, instead of deciding if his actions are prohibited by our Constitution, Justice Roberts is working to overturn what has been decided at the ballot box! And to this tyrannical action our very own court has stated:

"For the removal of unwise laws [and in this case a policy making decision] . . . appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)

Why do you support Justice Roberts’ attack on our democratic system and his desire to overturn the consequences of an election?

JWK

“The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice.” – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

Sounds like perjury to me. And yes, perjury is a crime. I would think it could put one’s law license at risk as well.

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Did you forget that Roberts re-wrote the Obamacare legislation, lied, and said it was a tax in order to uphold a federal government takeover of our unalienable right to make our own decisions and choices regarding our healthcare needs?

So, I guess you want to see Roberts prosecuted for perjury?

JWK

Obamacare by consent of the governed, Article 5, our Constitution`s amendment process. Tyranny by a majority vote in Congress or a Supreme Court’s majority vote

How does the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court lie to his own court? Did he testify during the Obamacare case?

Did you ever read our Constitution?

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;

Not only has he lied to his own court members, but also lied to the American people, and is now doing so to overturn the consequences of an election, and a policy making decision made by a duly elected president.

JWK

"For the removal of unwise laws [and in this case a policy making decision] . . . appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)

Can you be more specific when he lied? I see a difference of opinion, but I don’t see a lie.