The Adam and Eve of Paradise Lost

Gotta hand it to God, he has great writing skills

Choice is all about the Play, absolutely. I don’t see much of a choice about who I am rather than I am, being. It is and always was my choice to be here, because I belong here. I came out of this Universe, not into it. I am this Universe, experiencing the Universe.

I don’t see a soap opera, but a garden.

Switching metaphors: Ever help a child struggle through learning or mastering a difficult skill? When we are teaching a child to ride a bike, are we entertained when they cannot keep their balance, fall, and skin their hands and knees? No. Instead we are there to help them through. The same is true with suffering and death.

God is not being entertained. He is lending us a hand.

Some people see “Christianity” as whatever is written in the Bible (including a lot of Christians).

I see “Christianity” as Christ (Saint Issa to some Hindus), not a book.

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I have never understood that concept.

Someone who thinks that needs serious psychological help.

Not necessarily. He created Christ and Satan, and threw them in amongst our ancestors to see what would happen then and onward.

He’s not writing the script(s), he’s just watching the outcomes of his manipulations, instead of helping us from the get-go by not confounding our language, allowing evil into the world, etc.

There’s good and bad. The presence of Evil is not necessary to know the difference between good and bad, pleasure and pain.

God’s introduction of Evil into the world ensured that his soap opera would go on forever. It was perhaps his most Evil act.

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I agree. But then, my dominant gene is hermit over fear of being alone, so it is also difficult for me to understand remaining in abuse.

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Then you agree with most Christians that Eve should never have eaten the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil!

Some rabbis have noted that if we were blind to the existence of evil, we would never have to work to overcome it. Had you been Eve (and Adam) would you have chosen this blindness and given a pass to learning how to overcome/conquer it?

I see the two analogies as one in the same. Existence is crafted, nurtured, constantly adjusted, etc., much like a Play or a Garden would be.

And God should have never created the tree, knowing how much it would tempt Eve.

If I’m living with a recovering alcoholic, I shouldn’t be putting open bottles of beer around the house, bottles I’m not drinkingor using, just spreading them out, then blame the alcoholic for drinking one.

If I release a tiger into a playground, it’s still my fault if the Tiger makes the choice to eat someone’s dog.

First - you’re right.

Second, actually Eve wasn’t tempted any more than Adam was. Eve and Adam were standing together while the Serpent talked to Eve (as Guvnah made clear to me.)

So Adam was convinced by the Serpent too, and didn’t object to it. The only reason why Eve gave Adam an apple was because she was standing a little bit closer to it than he was, so she was being polite. Otherwise he’d have doubtless plucked it and ate it for himself.

Eve and Adam are equally to blame for the Fall. After God of course.

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This line of thought is close, but it misses the mark in the same way that hypotheses of simulation do, because it’s predicated on the idea that people are somehow separate from the Universe/God.

It also mirrors eastern mysticism with varying semantics.

Loneliness - not to be confused with the emotion of feeling lonely.

To be everything is to be completely alone, with no one “else” to interact with, because it’s all “you”.

In order to combat this loneliness, “you” immerse yourself in an illusion/Lila that feels so real, it’s as if it really is “something else,” with “It” running the show, instead of “I”.

Once you have a setting like that, it’s “time” to experience every possible life there is to experience.

Brahma and his wife Sarasvati, Their son Manu.

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Yes, the Trinity of the East. Excellent point. :thinking:

Sarawati or Manu weren’t specifically the Hindu Trinity, but their relationships has many stories. Saraswati was the river created by Brahma, so when they married it was incest of a sort. It is also mirrored in the sky, in the celestial objects and the milky way. Their son Manu was like Adam.

There are also parallels with Abraham and Sarah and related stories including flood stories, the deeper one looks the more similarities appear.

Here is a website that covers some similarities

Abraham and Brahma: Part I.

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Beautiful reads on that site, and a lot of what I’ve seen on my journeys as well. Do you have any theories on the origins of this indo-european spiritual belief?

I think you know the entheogenic origin of religion. Knowing history correctly means to penetrate into the Alaya consciousness. ( Akasa or Akashic records, storehouse consciousness) where all the karmic imagery is stored. Visionary experience is most commonly from this storehouse, composed of mythic associations and human interpretations of the cosmos that form imagery and connections. The brain fills in the blanks like one sees faces, animals and shapes in clouds.

Then one can learn the correct order of things in recent history, for intellectual clarity. “Recent” in this context includes a vast time period. The Akasa is still only a limited goal of the eight consciousness. Some people get stuck there and become self-satisfied.

Calling it “theory,” implies guessing. When it truly is beyond illusion or delusion, it is called the Middle (or narrow) Way.

One arrives at the platform of the path. and this is called the ninth consciousness, (Amala Consciousness) or throne of enlightenment/Buddhahood
When the lower senses fade with death, (or ego-death) the 8th and 9th consciousness remains.

As far as the myths and legends that became the fabric of Vedic, Hindu, Egyptian, Sumerian, Judaic, Buddhist, Greek, Roman and Christian visions, (and others) there is also the inheritance of a general cosmology of children stories as seen in the sky, including stars, planets and all celestial objects and how ancient sages explained it to children and beginners. They even make up large parts of each culture. The stories are much the same, but with different names of deities, angels and functions in various languages.

The distant antiquity of the Vedas can be seen with archeoastronomy. Various scripture contain specific astronomical epochs that enable the dating of the writings. Large portions of the Rigveda, concern the making and dispersal of Soma and Amrita in the legendary sense and how this is mirrored in the sky. Even the seven sages of Vedic Brahmanism is seen in the stars of the Big Dipper, revolving around the North Star in Samsara, The Dipper scoops the Soma and pours it into the Moon and then down to the meditator. Osiris and Hercules are the Same Orion etc.
All of the attempts to sort this out intellectually, only lead to doubts, confusion and arguing dogma, while faith and practice clears away these impediments. The fundamental practice of meditation and prayer is to stop the mind to observe it.

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I have a loooong way to go yet, and I appreciate your input greatly.

I maintain that the lost world language following the story of Babel was cosmology/mathematics.

As a result, it’s that type of cosmology that I look for when prehistoric sites are unearthed. As of now, the oldest reference I have to the (Methuselah’s) Deluge, is written in stone at Gobleki Tepe. Same story, different semantics, closer to the time of the actual event (Younger Dryas period), twice as far back in history than the Sumerians.

How much psychedelics played a part of that, I cannot say, though I do have a personal understanding that I fail to communicate every time. It’s clear as day that Moses was under the influence of DMT when he first received his visions, just as the Egyptian priesthood used in their spiritual rituals (acacia).

It’s also apparent to me that just about every person in the Bible to interact with God were under the influence of a completely different state of… where their awareness was separated from their consciousness. Burning bush, 40 days starving in the desert, everyone and everything Job ever owned or loved being violently taken away, etc… These are all catalysts to the same state of … and I don’t have a name for it, but I do see a pattern.

It’s not starving unless one is already undernourished, or in the wrong state.

Fasting has an amazing effect. It clears the mind and assists focus for meditation and prayer.

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