Statues - What is to be Tolerated or Repressed?

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Hexenbiest

He was a slaveowner that has been the defacto judgement period since this statue tearing down started. Edward Colston who they ripped down in Britain did a lot of great things, didn’t matter he came down by and angry mob.

"Colston supported and endowed schools, houses for the poor, almshouses, hospitals and Anglican churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere.

In Bristol, he founded almshouses in King Street and Colstons Almshouses on St Michael’s Hill, endowed Queen Elizabeth’s Hospital school, and helped found Colston’s Hospital, a boarding school which opened in 1710 leaving an endowment to be managed by the Society of Merchant Venturers for its upkeep. He gave money to schools in Temple (one of which went on to become St Mary Redcliffe and Temple School) and other parts of Bristol, and to several churches and the cathedral.

David Hughson, writing in 1808, described Colston as “the great benefactor of the city of Bristol, who, in his lifetime, expended more than 70,000L in charitable institutions” equivalent to £5,581,350 in 2020."

Yet none of these good deeds mattered because he was in the slave trade in the 1700’s, down he goes. It shouldn’t just be white people judged on slavery the Ottoman empire, all across Africa (Even Today) and all through Asia had slaves. Only the west beat themselves up for something that happened before they were born. Everyone else knows the past is the past and they had no hand in it.

So, this was a waste. I am not interested in Brits, nor the Ottoman Empire.

As an American, I am only interested in the American context.

To summarize: ‘don’t care’

[Oldandtired]

No we don’t know it because every time it’s not some white person being punished you just can’t bring yourself to say they deserve the same punishment.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Oldandtired

No we don’t know it because every time it’s not some white person being punished you just can’t bring yourself to say they deserve the same punishment.

Kindly provide examples, or retract and/or edit the post.

‘You’ is a direct reference, and thus an unsubstantiated accusation

[Oldandtired]

Sorry you don’t like my opinion but not going to edit or retract because it hurts your fee fees.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Oldandtired

Sorry you don’t like my opinion but not going to edit or retract because it hurts your fee fees.

My fee fees are just fine, I only mention it because you are always the first to whine about personal attacks.

To be clear, you made a personal attack on me, and yet are willing to let it go.

Which is fine. You do you.

[Samm]

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Bill.in.PA

Slaveholder:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Chief_Seattle's_bust.jpg/800px-Chief_Seattle's_bust.jpg

Take him down?

Well, if the criteria is slaveholding only, then yes, of course.

However, if the answer is only statues honoring those who supported chattel slavery for centuries, killed fellow Americans in defense of slavery, then went on to support, endorse and enforce a continuing system of oppression after emancipation, then no.

Then yes. That’s exactly what Seattle did.

Which? Be a slave holder? Sure.

And killed fellow Americans (whether they called themselves that at the time or not) to perpetuate it (i.e. in support of) in the time honored (for centuries) tradition of his forefathers.

Tear it down!!!

Okay, I could go either way

However, I think equating Seattle with Forrest is intellectually dishonest, and a perfect example of the gotcha both-siderism the right engages with, in lieu of thoughtful and nuanced discourse.

Who’s equating? All I ask for is consistency.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Bill.in.PA

Slaveholder:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Chief_Seattle's_bust.jpg/800px-Chief_Seattle's_bust.jpg

Take him down?

Well, if the criteria is slaveholding only, then yes, of course.

However, if the answer is only statues honoring those who supported chattel slavery for centuries, killed fellow Americans in defense of slavery, then went on to support, endorse and enforce a continuing system of oppression after emancipation, then no.

Then yes. That’s exactly what Seattle did.

Which? Be a slave holder? Sure.

And killed fellow Americans (whether they called themselves that at the time or not) to perpetuate it (i.e. in support of) in the time honored (for centuries) tradition of his forefathers.

Tear it down!!!

Okay, I could go either way

However, I think equating Seattle with Forrest is intellectually dishonest, and a perfect example of the gotcha both-siderism the right engages with, in lieu of thoughtful and nuanced discourse.

Who’s equating? All I ask for is consistency.

Consistency based on what? Slaveholding only? If so, Seattle must go.

[PurpnGold]

@Supreme_War_Pig

Consistency based on what? Slaveholding only ? If so, Seattle must go.

He owned Indian Slaves. Who were POWs I believe.

If his tribe wants to condemn his slaveholding… so be it… however the US should not. Especially after what they did to slaves themselves.

[RTchoke]

Video of the time capsule being opened that was found under the Robert E. Lee monument torn down.

Hint: the first hour is just trying to get it open to skip to 1:06 ish to see the reveal. I took the hit for y’all.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@PurpnGold

@Supreme_War_Pig

Consistency based on what? Slaveholding only ? If so, Seattle must go.

He owned Indian Slaves. Who were POWs I believe.

If his tribe wants to condemn his slaveholding… so be it… however the US should not. Especially after what they did to slaves themselves.

Please read my other posts.

I am trying to introduce context and nuance. It is going about as well as you might expect around here.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

Darn. Was it empty?

[RTchoke]

@Supreme_War_Pig

Darn. Was it empty?

No, there were a few things in there. Here is an article if you don’t want to watch the video.

1887 time capsule found at base of Lee statue to be opened

The people who open the new time capsule are going to be saying ■■■ when they lift the lid.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

Heh. Still pretty cool, but kind of a Geraldo moment, eh?

[Samm]

@Supreme_War_Pig

Consistency based on what? Slaveholding only ? If so, Seattle must go.

Not just slave owning, any sin used to rationalize the removal one statue should be applied to all statues. The safe thing to do would be to take them all down. Lib utopia.

[RTchoke]

@Supreme_War_Pig

Heh. Still pretty cool, but kind of a Geraldo moment, eh?

Big time.

[WuWei]

It’s to protect the narrative.

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

He owned Indian Slaves. Who were POWs I believe.

Oh well… never mind then.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Supreme_War_Pig

Consistency based on what? Slaveholding only ? If so, Seattle must go.

He owned Indian Slaves. Who were POWs I believe.

If his tribe wants to condemn his slaveholding… so be it… however the US should not. Especially after what they did to slaves themselves.

Why shouldn’t the government condemn it? Are you against it so that you can prove that the government is the same now as it was in 1859?

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

Why shouldn’t the government condemn it? Are you against it so that you can prove that the government is the same now as it was in 1859?

He owned Indian slaves.

Was his statue erected as a middle finger to his Indian tribe? Who put up his statues? His tribe or residents of Seattle?

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

He owned Indian slaves.

Doesn’t count.