Spirituality and/or Religion


#1

I’d rather the title just be “Spirituality” but it has to be more than 15 characters long, apparently…

I’ve been reading up on how long distance runners run to “transcend” themselves and connect with spirituality.

According to the Navajos (according to one of the articles I read) running is prayer.

So…anyone here regard themselves as a “spirtual” person rather than a “religious” person?


#2

Religious people are spiritual people. People without who do not follow a particular denomination are simply “spiritual”.

I don’t run, but one of my favorite prayer times are pre-dawn walks.

One question I recently came across that may be interesting is whether males and females are differently spiritually and/or have different approaches to spirituality.


#3

That’s a question worthy of its own thread. I would argue that in general they do approach spiritually differently.


#4

All who are baptized by the Holy Spirit, are spiritual.


#5

Everyone is spiritual. You’re either born again and of the Holy Spirit or you’re of Satan. When people today say they are “spiritual”, it usually means they follow some philosophy of “good” works, following the Golden rule or some other mumbo jumbo that makes them feel good about themselves. There are 2 spirits- that’s it. One you get by choice, the other by default.


#6

So if people live “good” lives - help out people and treat others as they would themselves, you’ll believe that they’ll go to Hell aka Satan because they believed in the wrong God? Even though they lived lives where they never hurt anyone, only helped them?


#7

Can you prove that?


#8

I’ve never met anyone who considered themselves evil, have you? That’s the problem. People self determine their own goodness in comparison with other PEOPLE. Granted, I’d rather have a world full of “good” people rather than a world of “evil” people, but for Heaven, the standard of goodness is not people but Christ. If you really on your own goodness, you will fall short… Our hearts are deceitful and wicked, IOW worldly and the enemy of God. The god of this world is Satan. If you love and are of the world, you get Satan by default. Man can not serve or love two masters. Christ is a choice, and NOT the easy one. He made it clear that Christians will be hated because they hated Him first.


#9

Nope…we all have that opportunity but end up falling short…if we are honest with ourselves? Are you “good” enough?


#10

In all seriousness, yes I am.


#11

I never have, but that doesn’t mean they’re not out there. Plenty of psychopaths know they’re psychopaths and don’t care.


#12

:slight_smile: Which reminds me of the old saw about “good enough”: Good enough never is. The question is, Can we be better?


#13

Every day and in every way, I strive to be better. :wink:

Here’s the thing. If God is actually a God of love, then I find it very difficult to believe that he’d condemn people who “live good lives” to Hell, just because they find it impossible to believe in Him.

Which brings me back to my belief that, if God did exist, and did do things like that, he would not be worth worshiping. :wink:


#14

I wasn’t ever taught that God sends good people to hell because they do not believe. I was taught people choose separation from God because they hate/do not want what is good. Even if they cannot believe in God, people can believe in love and goodness (God’s ways). They can choose to live in those ways over evil and selfish ways.

The Parable of the Owner of the Vineyard was often referenced in this regard. There are some of us who have known the Owner of the Vineyard early on, and worked in His vineyard all our lives. This is our early reward, our blessing because the afterlife will be open and welcoming to those who were asked during their final hour whether they wish to enter and work–or not. If their response is to enter the vineyard, they will receive every bit as much as those who entered early in their lives and who were able to enjoy God, His presence, and His blessings in this life was well.

I doubt God would want the worship of those who think so badly of Him. Hero worship, awe, and reverence cannot be demanded or commanded. They simply are–or are not. God is my hero, and I am in awe of Him because of what He has done for me. I can do no other.

Those who miss connecting with God cannot possess the feelings that those of us who have connected experience. In the long run, you will be fine. Wish you could enjoy the long run in the short run as well! :sunny:


#15

Very spiritual, and very much against organized religion.


#16

Yeah, that’s one of the characteristics of a psychopath- they don’t care. That is different though than outright calling themselves evil. Psychopaths ( and sociopaths) are by definition not normal. The issue is people who consider themselves good, this is “normal” for people.


#17

Christians dont understand the real connections with God that I have experienced. Otherwise, you wouldnt need to adhere to ancient mythology.


#18

Sounds kind of strange. Too bad he couldnt have done something during the black plague. Or the holocaust. But hey, “I” feel good, therefore “my” God is love. Sounds more like a personal abstraction in your head, rather than some thing that exists outside of your own concepts.


#19

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Back in the day, after 9/11, I applied this passage in reply to someone wondering why this could have happened. I pointed out that there were doubtless some who’d been swept away who were living in the faith just as there were those were not. The idea that bad things happening somehow makes them seem like they should be out of control is as you know based on the references you gave hardly a new one. You wonder where was the Lord in the plagues or the Holocaust, the answer is that He’s exactly where He is tonight while numerable someones die in their sleep and where He’ll be when many more wake up to face another day.

We are told that the Lord sets boundaries for our lives, the times and places in which we may live, that we may look for Him, which though He is said to be near is described as groping for Him.

No one who has ever died, for whatever reason that they died, did so apart from His at least permitting it. That doesn’t mean the He stepped into time to cause them to die at such and such a moment and for this we could turn to the book of Job to understand some of the implications of Him permitting things … as has been pointed out by another poster there is a spiritual kingdom operating in this world that is opposed to God.

But the Son did step into time to die, to suffer unjustly, and all that the Gospel describes so that, just as the prophet Isaiah related “Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.”

Is it really so unbelievable that for any who are in fact accountable to believe in this that it really is required for them to believe to see life?

We are not in this country, to borrow from Mel Brooks, dumb scum who are so spiritually poor that all we’ve got is outrageous accents? No, we live in a land awash in awareness of Scripture or at least in knowledge of what has been done for us. Just a few days ago many marked a day that bears witness against us all that we know these things. We are not those who have never heard, who might have an excuse, nor are we children too young to know our right hand from our left that we should have an excuse.

Earlier someone spoke of being good enough, well I too have had visions and dreams and these gave a different witness. In one (I have referenced it before) I found myself in a massive atrium to a banquet hall. Before the doors to the hall there was an attendant and tables overburdened with documents but in the atrium there were great spools of paper on poles forming giant scrolls where you could wind up on one as you unrolled from another. On some of these men were writing furiously a record of all their worth but on others there were no writers and the scrolls had been sealed where they’d stopped. Having looked over these I went to examine the documents on the tables. The first one I reached for was in character like a birth certificate, an ordinary sheet of paper, it was filled out in red ink by someone else, and it was actually the one with my name on it. There was nothing on it to say I was worthy, only that I was alive. I asked the attendant that since I had this why shouldn’t I go into the banquet? The response was that I could.

All those spindles where people were trying to fill out something in place of their own forms provided and filled out for them … how many had written till they had been taken away as Ignorance was in The Pilgrim’s Progress, taken away from the foot of very gates themselves?

So would Christ say in parable of many Americans, who have free access to the Gospels, as he subsequently said in Luke 13:

Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

“‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”


#20

If you’re referencing the actions of yourself to those you’ve personally witnessed, IMHO…your basis is faulty. The Lord is a whole new level of righteousness that neither of us has yet to understand.