SpaceX Finally turns a profit (and WOW it has a lot of satellites)

e7alr · 2023-08-25T03:49:07.805Z

There is a regulatory reason that a company might only recruit US citizens. Satellite work often involves classified projects on behalf of DOD and the intelligence community. The workers involved require security clearances. Only US citizens can hold security clearances. And there are certain countries that fall into the category of being controlled by governments with goals counter to the interests of the United States. Said countries are know to have active intelligence collection efforts targeting the US and it’s activities and technology.

Gaius · 2023-08-25T10:19:19.489Z

Exactly.
Hiring persons without a green card to do things such as build intercontinental ballistic rockets illegal under US International Traffic in Arms Regulations Law (ITAR)

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In the minute-47 video below, Musk explained (at a shareholders meeting?) that US law prohibits Space-X from hiring people without green cards.

And says that at TESLA about a quarter of its US engineering team incomes from outside the US (as does Musk himself btw)
https://twitter.com/gurgavin/status/1694740161211294121?s=20

Pretty clearly this is a Justice department run amok, persecuting any person and any business it perceives to be a Biden opponent.

Nemesis · 2023-08-25T11:46:12.091Z

Last two posts by @e7alr and @Gaius make sense.

The DOJ is arguing that the International Traffic in Arms Regulation and the Export Administration Regulations do allow for asylees and refugees to be treated like US citizens.

I know nothing about these two pieces of legislation but I have a hard time believing such a massive loophole would exist in legislation trying to stop information falling into the wrong hands.

Yes US citizens can and have and will spy for foreign countries but that does not mean safeguards to limit these acts should not exist.

RTchoke · 2023-08-25T17:20:43.828Z

Gaius:

Pretty clearly this is a Justice department run amok, persecuting any person and any business it perceives to be a Biden opponent.

Musk acquired Twitter and let loose the Twitter files showing just what the govt was actually doing in regards to censorship etc.

You think this DOJ was just going to let that go?

conan · 2023-08-25T17:32:54.369Z

Nemesis:

Last two posts by @e7alr and @Gaius make sense.

Are you going to admit just how corrupt CoJ really is? Musk been on libs radar ever since he bought twitter and exposed there corruption. It’s payback.

PurpnGold · 2023-08-25T18:01:14.559Z

conan:

Nemesis:

Last two posts by @e7alr and @Gaius make sense.

Are you going to admit just how corrupt CoJ really is? Musk been on libs radar ever since he bought twitter and exposed there corruption. It’s payback.

No, he hasn’t.

conan · 2023-08-25T18:01:58.578Z

PurpnGold:

No, he hasn’t.

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Gaius · 2023-08-25T21:55:47.538Z

Interesting:
assistant AG for Civil Rights Kristen Clarke, who is suing elon musk and
SpaceX for “discriminating against asylum seekers” was an avowed black supremacist while at Harvard University

She apparently wrote in the Harvard Crimson
“Melanin endows Blacks with greater mental, physical and spiritual abilities”
among other things.

A person likes that should not even HAVE a job at DoJ. I think this nails it shut. DoJ is not about fighting crime. It ud the political persecution arm of the party in power.

Full stop.

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Gaius · 2023-08-25T22:14:51.244Z

If she were white, and had written this about white people she would not work for the DOJ and her history of racist rantings would be the lead story on every network right now.

You know it.
I know it.
We all know it.

FloridaYankee · 2023-08-26T16:11:35.124Z

Gaius:

Guvnah:

Gonna need a traffic cop up there soon.

Well, as long as we get all the good spots before the Chinese and Indians do.

Their orbit is about 17,000 in diameter and over 53,000 miles in circumference. If they were all lined up in single file around Earth there would be ten miles plus between them. Just having fun lol.

JayJay · 2023-08-28T12:46:42.384Z

Gaius:

Exactly.
Hiring persons without a green card to do things such as build intercontinental ballistic rockets illegal under US International Traffic in Arms Regulations Law (ITAR)

image976×591 48.7 KB

In the minute-47 video below, Musk explained (at a shareholders meeting?) that US law prohibits Space-X from hiring people without green cards.

And says that at TESLA about a quarter of its US engineering team incomes from outside the US (as does Musk himself btw)
https://twitter.com/gurgavin/status/1694740161211294121?s=20

Pretty clearly this is a Justice department run amok, persecuting any person and any business it perceives to be a Biden opponent.

Except ITAR does no such thing…in fact, it defines asylees and refugees as “US Persons”.

U.S. Person vs. Foreign Person | Information Technology Services(EAR%20Part%20772,protected%20person”%20under%208%20U.S.C.

The pertinent section…

IMG_25031797×940 250 KB

Nemesis · 2023-08-28T12:50:25.683Z

Well thanks for confusing me more on what my opinion on this should be .

JayJay · 2023-08-28T14:27:45.158Z

e7alr:

There is a regulatory reason that a company might only recruit US citizens. Satellite work often involves classified projects on behalf of DOD and the intelligence community. The workers involved require security clearances. Only US citizens can hold security clearances. And there are certain countries that fall into the category of being controlled by governments with goals counter to the interests of the United States. Said countries are know to have active intelligence collection efforts targeting the US and it’s activities and technology.

This I will have to research more…I only looked at ITAR…I did not look at any relevant security clearances laws.

However, I have a hard time believing that EVERY job at SpaceX requires the type of clearances only US citizens can get…and so therefore a broad policy where they won’t even consider hiring asylees/refugees is not going to fly.

In fact, since Musk apparently has hired permanent residents, obviously not every job at SpaceX requires a security clearance (since you are correct…ONLY US citizens can get such clearances. There is a more limited access…indeed called a Limited Access Authorization…that a non-citizen can get…but LAAs are very narrow in scope).

And Musk didn’t use the clearances argument…he used ITAR. And ITAR explicitly calls asylees/refugees “US persons”.

JayJay · 2023-08-28T14:29:13.289Z

Nemesis:

Well thanks for confusing me more on what my opinion on this should be .

The laws being cited here actually make any legal opinions on the matter less confusing….

But I can see being conflicted over WHETHER asylees/refugees should be allowed to be considered for SpaceX jobs.

But that’s a different argument.

Nemesis · 2023-08-28T14:37:12.098Z

So under current legislation they are allowed to be considered for employment and therefore if Space X has made a blanket decision to exclude them from the application process this why the DOJ is taking the action it is.

JayJay · 2023-08-28T14:42:44.535Z

Nemesis:

So under current legislation they are allowed to be considered for employment and therefore if Space X has made a blanket decision to exclude them from the application process this why the DOJ is taking the action it is.

Yes…they stand accused of having a policy in place where they won’t even consider such groups of people for employment.

That is not permissible under current laws.

Elon Musk is not being targeted by a “weaponized DOJ”. If what is claimed is true, SpaceX violated the law.

Gaius · 2023-08-28T14:44:29.481Z

background check

Nemesis · 2023-08-28T14:46:55.288Z

Thanks for that clarification.

Nemesis · 2023-08-28T14:53:17.758Z

Gaius:

background check

I would imagine if they cannot pass a background check then they would not be offered employment but from how Jay has explained it Space X cannot assume they will not pass a background check and should be considering applications from qualified asylees and refugees.

It seems DOJ is not saying they have to be employed or given preference but they need to be give the opportunity to apply.

JayJay · 2023-08-28T15:28:04.805Z

Gaius:

background check

Did you mean to say “security clearances”?

Because if so, not all jobs at SoaceX must require those because they do hire green card holders, who can’t get security clearances (although they can get LAAs, which I think refugees/asylees can get too).

But either way, as Nemesis pointed out, you can’t automatically assume they won’t pass and therefore completely exclude them from even being considered.