Six people arrested so far as part of Neo Nazi terrorist group

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

I mean the whole argument.

Just plain silly.

I agree. The whole PC argument (not just about statues) is just plain silly.

Your argument is somehow American will forget about the civil war without a bronze statue in a park they never visit.

Not forget, change. And the statues are just a visible symbol. The real attack is in our education system. Eventually, if the reformers are successful, our history will read quite differently. But it won’t change the facts of what occurred, all it will do is distort them in the minds of people who by then know no better.

I can tell you unequivocally that I was taught the wrong history when it comes to the civil war and it’s causes.

The reasons for that are the same as to why those statues exist.

[Samm]

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@gooddad409

@Sknyluv

@Smyrna

Maybe…the President was right…all along?

You’re trying to nuance the President’s “both sides” comment. We get it. There were probably nice, well-intentioned people who got wrapped up in the unite-the-right rally under false pretenses or whatever. The rally was not about those kinds of people. It was about the organizers who intended the rally to be about white nationalism. You could parse any hate group’s rally and say that there MUST have been a few good people there.

It was misguided for the President to categorize the attendees of a hate group rally as good people. Just own up to that.

It would have been more accurate for him to say there were some bad people on all sides.

There were 3 hate groups there imo. Neo nazis, Antifa, and BLM.

No wonder it all ended in a fight.

You see… that wouldn’t have been a wrong thing to say.

But he ■■■■■■ up… a couple of times.

What is the difference between “there were good people on both sides” and “there were bad people on both sides”?

because one is gas-lighting and the other isn’t.

Nonsense. Both statements are equally true.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

I mean the whole argument.

Just plain silly.

I agree. The whole PC argument (not just about statues) is just plain silly.

Your argument is somehow American will forget about the civil war without a bronze statue in a park they never visit.

Not forget, change. And the statues are just a visible symbol. The real attack is in our education system. Eventually, if the reformers are successful, our history will read quite differently. But it won’t change the facts of what occurred, all it will do is distort them in the minds of people who by then know no better.

I can tell you unequivocally that I was taught the wrong history when it comes to the civil war and it’s causes.

The reasons for that are the same as to why those statues exist.

Then you should be educated enough to know that those statues are not causing anyone any harm.

[Jezcoe]

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

One branch of my family were both Tories and Confederates.

One of them wrote a diary that is a pretty good account of Norfolk under Union occupation during the civil war

Their history is still valid.

They were on the wrong side though.

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

I mean the whole argument.

Just plain silly.

I agree. The whole PC argument (not just about statues) is just plain silly.

Your argument is somehow American will forget about the civil war without a bronze statue in a park they never visit.

Not forget, change. And the statues are just a visible symbol. The real attack is in our education system. Eventually, if the reformers are successful, our history will read quite differently. But it won’t change the facts of what occurred, all it will do is distort them in the minds of people who by then know no better.

I can tell you unequivocally that I was taught the wrong history when it comes to the civil war and it’s causes.

The reasons for that are the same as to why those statues exist.

Then you should be educated enough to know that those statues are not causing anyone any harm.

Nor does it harm anyone to remove them if the locality chooses to do so.

[CanadianJudo]

@Jezcoe

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

One branch of my family were both Tories and Confederates.

One of them wrote a diary that is a pretty good account of Norfolk under Union occupation during the civil war

Their history is still valid.

They were on the wrong side though.

I have no issue with humanizing conflict teaching what the average citizen experienced during the war, but don’t try and change the reason for it don’t try and justify it.

sometimes countries make mistakes learn from it.

[CanadianJudo]

@Jezcoe

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

One branch of my family were both Tories and Confederates.

One of them wrote a diary that is a pretty good account of Norfolk under Union occupation during the civil war

Their history is still valid.

They were on the wrong side though.

we have this odd way of teaching history we can’t admit “ya so we ■■■■■■ up”
everything we do has to be justified or with good reason which is stupid we ■■■■ up all the time.

look at Iraq, we make mistake all the time.

[Samm]

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

Anyone who gives everything they have for their comrades and country is a hero. It doesn’t matter as to which side of the battle they fought. That is exactly why veterans who fought on both sides of bitter conflicts can and often do come together with great respect and friendship when the war is settled. It is arrogant and disrespectful to suggest that only the winners can have heroes.

[CanadianJudo]

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

Anyone who gives everything they have for their comrades and country is a hero. It doesn’t matter as to which side of the battle they fought. That is exactly why veterans who fought on both sides of bitter conflicts can and often do come together with great respect and friendship when the war is settled. It is arrogant and disrespectful to suggest that only the winners can have heroes.

Yes I agree you can humanize conflict, I have no issue with humanizing the Southerns talking about the daily lives of soldiers, etc.

what I have an issue is with humanizing the reasons for the war, the reason those boys where fighting, and their reason were crystal clear it was about their government preserved constitutional right to owe black people.

That is one thing that can’t be ignored or justified it was wrong, once both sides can accept that we can humanize the conflict and talk about what it was like for everyday Americans.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

I mean the whole argument.

Just plain silly.

I agree. The whole PC argument (not just about statues) is just plain silly.

Your argument is somehow American will forget about the civil war without a bronze statue in a park they never visit.

Not forget, change. And the statues are just a visible symbol. The real attack is in our education system. Eventually, if the reformers are successful, our history will read quite differently. But it won’t change the facts of what occurred, all it will do is distort them in the minds of people who by then know no better.

I can tell you unequivocally that I was taught the wrong history when it comes to the civil war and it’s causes.

The reasons for that are the same as to why those statues exist.

Then you should be educated enough to know that those statues are not causing anyone any harm.

Nor does it harm anyone to remove them if the locality chooses to do so.

The harm is in the process. You cannot justify soothing your hurt feelings by offending others. All you do is create outrage, which encourages violence, which is what this topic is about.

[Samm]

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

I have a soft spot for traitors since my ancestors fought a two rebellion with the Canadian government, but I would be stupid to ask them to honor them as “heroes”.

Anyone who gives everything they have for their comrades and country is a hero. It doesn’t matter as to which side of the battle they fought. That is exactly why veterans who fought on both sides of bitter conflicts can and often do come together with great respect and friendship when the war is settled. It is arrogant and disrespectful to suggest that only the winners can have heroes.

Yes I agree you can humanize conflict, I have no issue with humanizing the Southerns talking about the daily lives of soldiers, etc.

what I have an issue is with humanizing the reasons for the war, the reason those boys where fighting, and their reason were crystal clear it was about their government preserved constitutional right to owe black people.

That is one thing that can’t be ignored or justified it was wrong, once both sides can accept that we can humanize the conflict and talk about what it was like for everyday Americans.

So we are good then. The statues can stay.

[conan]

Only clip belt that I’m aware of are for harnesses…but again what do I know.

[WildRose]

Statues and memorials are almost always built long after the wars and people they commemorate.

When were the WWII and Vietnam Memorials in DC erected?

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@Jezcoe

I mean the whole argument.

Just plain silly.

I agree. The whole PC argument (not just about statues) is just plain silly.

Your argument is somehow American will forget about the civil war without a bronze statue in a park they never visit.

Not forget, change. And the statues are just a visible symbol. The real attack is in our education system. Eventually, if the reformers are successful, our history will read quite differently. But it won’t change the facts of what occurred, all it will do is distort them in the minds of people who by then know no better.

I can tell you unequivocally that I was taught the wrong history when it comes to the civil war and it’s causes.

The reasons for that are the same as to why those statues exist.

Then you should be educated enough to know that those statues are not causing anyone any harm.

Nor does it harm anyone to remove them if the locality chooses to do so.

The harm is in the process. You cannot justify soothing your hurt feelings by offending others. All you do is create outrage, which encourages violence, which is what this topic is about.

What if a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest is no longer wanted in a neighborhood.

Why shouldn’t they be able to move it?

Put up someone who wasn’t a racist mass murdering war criminal?

If one wants to bring feelings of resentment into the conversation… I would sure as hell resent seeing a statue of that guy every day.

[WildRose]

Then let a private group willing to put up the money to do so move it to private property as was the case with the statue in Charlottesville that was behind the protest.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@tnt

Removing a statue from a place of honor is not the same as earasing. A name from history.

It’s a start.

no a start would be revisionist history like suggesting the civil war wasn’t about the south view they have a constitutional right to owe other humans.

Why people fight so hard to keep the symbols honoring the preservation of slavery alive is beyond me.

It really is.

The question can be asked both ways. Why do people fight so hard to remove symbols honoring the valor of men who fought for their comrades and country? It is beyond me too. What good will it accomplish? Don’t you have something more important, more productive, and more pertinent on which to expend your energy?

[Samm]

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@tnt

Removing a statue from a place of honor is not the same as earasing. A name from history.

It’s a start.

You know where is a good place for confederate monuments/.
civil war confederate cemeteries.

Those are under attack as well.

[Samm]

@tnt

There is not a single statue of hitler On display in a town center in the whole united state and yet my children still know the man.

How is this possible?

Because he was a common enemy to all Americans. There is nobody here trying to erase our memory of him.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@CanadianJudo

@Borgia_dude

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Borgia_dude

Ok, I found this on the wiki page for unite the right:

The organizers’ stated goals included unifying the American white nationalist movement[11] and opposing proposed removal of the statue of General Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville’s former Lee Park

White Nationalist working to preserve symbols of White Supremacy.

Totally legit thing to back.

Destroy them! Wipe their names and their images from the annals of history!

Such a drama queen! We must have statues to these Confederate “heroes” in places of honor or we will forget. Wow!

That is why there is a statue of Hitler in Berlin so they don’t forget.

But there is a statue of Lenin in Ballard.

There is a statue of Lenin in Manhattan. Some crazy Russian dude put it on top of his building.

So what?

So it shows that it’s not hurting anyone.

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@CanadianJudo

@Samm

@tnt

Removing a statue from a place of honor is not the same as earasing. A name from history.

It’s a start.

no a start would be revisionist history like suggesting the civil war wasn’t about the south view they have a constitutional right to owe other humans.

Why people fight so hard to keep the symbols honoring the preservation of slavery alive is beyond me.

It really is.

The question can be asked both ways. Why do people fight so hard to remove symbols honoring the valor of men who fought for their comrades and country? It is beyond me too. What good will it accomplish? Don’t you have something more important, more productive, and more pertinent on which to expend your energy?

Keep kind of skipping around the low hanging fruit of removing statues honoring Nathan Bedford Forrest.

I keep throwing that out there because he was among the first to be removed and people get upset over.

But what is there to defend?

I have advocated that if a locality wants to take it down, let them. Don’t bother them. Don’t nationalize the issue.

And yes… that is true for all sides of this issue.

It isn’t anyone’s business but the locality… but there is more pushback from those who want to “preserve” the symbols of white supremacy like making it illegal to take them down and nonsense like that… it makes me wonder why people who never have to lay eyes on these things care of they are moved.