conan
202
You do understand thousands if not tens of thousand are going to die while NATO looks on.
So score yourself a political point.
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I been saying for years that Chechnya broke the back of the Russian military and they’ve never recovered from it. See.
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Looks like China can safely claim the #2 spot at this point. 
Ukraine has no path to victory, this isn’t a war so much as a battle for time for them every hour, minute, second they hold out the closer Russia is pushed to economic ruin.
Zander
206
I don’t think the Russians can sustain this long enough for those types of casualties, but I could be wrong.
And even if casualties do mount, I’m not sure that necessarily translates to “NATO is weak and helpless.” As others have pointed out, it probably translates to “holy crap let’s strengthen NATO and its mission because we see why it’s so important now.”
I guess we’ll see how this shakes out in the long run.
Zander
207
But like you said, it’s like scouting a high school prospect.
PLA is 5 stars across the board until they get hit in the mouth by a pulling guard.
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give Canada a couple tugboat we could push Russia out of the Arctic at that this point.
So Tommy sets NATO policy? Who knew.
Here is a blow up of the map.
It appears to show a line going to Transnistria, an region on the border between Ukraine and Moldova that has been functioning as an independent country since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Interestingly there is nothing going into the Ukrainian-speaking areas of central and western Ukraine. That supports the idea that Putin may end up partitioning Ukraine rather than attempting to occupy strongly Ukrainian areas of the country.
I’d do the same if I was.
DougBH
212
Your mission, should you decide to accept it….
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Transnistria most people probably don’t even know exists. a 1/4 Russians and a 1/4 Ukranians the rest Moldova. It is the one place that still has Lenin statues up its like a blast from the past probably would be a cool place to visit, not now of course.
And the Ukrainians have proven they are willing to pay it.
The Russians never anticipated this level of resistance. It’s clear by how crappy they are performing.
NJBob
215
What does victory look like to Ukraine?
IMO, if they keep their independence, it’s a win. It’s not like they plan to roll into Moscow.
Ukraine only win if Russia gives up, be it in a weeks or years.
what we need to do is bleed Russia economically
NJBob
217
How is that different from what I said?
fact #3. as soon as those aircraft enter ukraine airspace, they are not nato’s concern as they are then subject to orders from ukraine. so long as they don’t go back to poland, not our problem.
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that is what a rational person would think.
Putin has not been acting very rational.
Russia is moving to stop western companies from selling asset in Russian economy.
the sanctions haven’t even had an effect yet. when they embargo russian oil and gas let me know.
