Should Biden renounce his support of neo-Nazis?

johnwk2 · 2020-10-03T01:22:37.341Z

jcrandall:

Ever notice how whatever Donald is being accused of someone brings up whatever they can find to accuse Donald’s adversaries of the EXACT same thing?

That is called the Russian Whataboutism trick link

JWK

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T01:23:53.266Z

The US funded Islamic extremists to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, but then they turned and attacked the US at 9-11.

Obama-Biden Administration pushed funding for neo-Nazis in Ukraine, but the Ukrainians have been training and inspiring extremists in the US and other countries outside of Ukraine. Actions have consequences.

Does Biden need to admit his responsibility for inspiring the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville though support of neo-Nazis in Ukraine?

DisturbedGuy · 2020-10-03T01:27:39.949Z

NuffSaid:

BDS in full display

Just wait until Biden kicks Dumpster’s ass. It will be like 2008 all over again.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T01:30:31.961Z

Should Biden renounce his support of Neo-Nazis?

He still has not personally denounced the endorsement of Richard Spenser, the neo-Nazi leader in the Charlottesville. Does that mean he is looking for the neo-Nazi vote?

DisturbedGuy · 2020-10-03T01:32:39.164Z

Bill.in.PA:

Should Biden renounce his support of Neo-Nazis?

He still has not personally denounced the endorsement of Richard Spenser, the neo-Nazi leader in the Charlottesville. Does that mean he is looking for the neo-Nazi vote?

Me thinks you projectith too much.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T01:37:31.273Z

So you are fine with Obama and Biden funding neo-Nazi militias?

This looks like a win-win for Democrats. First they reaped the benefits of furthering their foreign policy in Ukraine. Later they accuse their political opponents for being responsible for actions of neo-Nazis in the US that were inspired and supported by Ukrainian neo-Nazis.

Democrats get all the benefits and then blame others for all the problems.

jcrandall · 2020-10-03T01:49:08.398Z

Is this the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon bit?

jcrandall · 2020-10-03T01:50:41.783Z

I disagree. It is merely simple minded projection to shift focus from one crappy person to another,.

jcrandall · 2020-10-03T01:52:26.329Z

It is so hard to keep up with the shifting sands of Trumpism. Is it bad to call these folks fine people or not?

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T01:57:24.843Z

Biden has made the fine-people narrative the center of his campaign, but his administration was more than happy to push funding to neo-Nazis in Ukraine.

Do you see any contradiction in those positions?

jcrandall · 2020-10-03T02:03:32.554Z

So is that good or bad?

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T02:12:49.425Z

US funding of the neo-Nazis ended in 2017 according the Nation article below, but they still have active militias there. Biden left a legacy.

The Nation – 22 Feb 19

Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine

Five years after the Maidan uprising, anti-Semitism and fascist-inflected ultranationalism are rampant.

Est. reading time: 14 minutes

That may be a factor in Biden winning the support of neo-Nazis.

The Federalist – 24 Aug 20

White Supremacist Who Organized Charlottesville Race Riots Endorses Joe Biden

Trump is labeled an avid racist by political opponents and media, but Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are endorsed by one of the most notorious racists in America.

Est. reading time: 5 minutes

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T02:41:45.183Z

Are Ukrainian neo-Nazis good, but American neo-Nazis are evil?

Should American neo-Nazis go to Ukraine to learn how to be the right kind of neo-Nazi?

Maybe Ukrainians know how to keep their veins from bulging.

johnwk2 · 2020-10-03T02:45:39.918Z

jcrandall:

I disagree. It is merely simple minded projection to shift focus from one crappy person to another,.

So tell me. Should Biden renounce his support of neo-Nazis?

JWK

“Until you realize how easy it is for your mind to be manipulated, you remain the puppet of someone else’s game.” ― Evita Ochel

jcrandall · 2020-10-03T03:09:42.124Z

Of course he should. Is this the standard though, or is it just the standard for one group or party? That is the real question.

WuWei · 2020-10-03T03:42:00.568Z

Mod Note

I highly suggest you guys knock off the:

Personal attacks
Trolling
You are warned.

johnrandolph · 2020-10-03T12:36:38.190Z

Bill.in.PA:

Biden has made deploring neo-Nazi protests in Charlottesville the center of his campaign, but the Obama-Biden Administration made US military aid to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion a key point of their policy in Ukraine. When congress recognized this support of racist extremists they pass an amendment from Congressman John Conyers to ban such funding in 2015. The Obama-Biden Administration lobbied and got the restrictions removed in January 2016:

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

It is clear that they did quickly provide military aid to the Azov Battalion; here is a military parade of the Azov Battalion in Ukraine from July 2016. The uniforms and equipment appear to be of US origin:

Azov military parade - YouTube

Here is a video of the battalion marching with torches through Kharkov in eastern Ukraine in December 2016 that look very similar to the neo-Nazi marches in Charlottesville a few months later.
- YouTube
The banner that they are carrying says “Peace after Victory” in Ukrainian; their jackets say “Eastern Corps”.

Here is another similar video from Kyiv that included the Azov Brigade along with other marchers lit by torches.
Far right, nationalist march passes peacefully - YouTube

The similarities with the Charlottesville torch march are probably not a coincidence; court papers show that the Azov Battalion was responsible for training US white supremacists that attended the Charlottesville events.
Ukraine’s neo-Nazis trained US white supremacists – FBI | VT Foreign Policy
Here is the court document:
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/RAM-rioting-Rundo-et-al-COMPLAINT133873.pdf

Biden was a leading envoy for the Obama Administration to Ukraine; he clearly was aware of and at least tacitly supported funding the Azov Battalion and similar groups. He claims that seeing neo-Nazis with torches in Charlottesville a life-changing event that is the basis of his campaign, but I have found zero evidence that he has every renounced his involvement with funding the Azov Battalion and similar groups in Ukraine. Nor has he acknowledged the same groups that the Obama-Biden administration supported were also involved with the events in Charlottesville.

Does Biden need to renounce his support for neo-Nazis?

Or are neo-Nazis and similar groups “fine people” so long as they help US interests overseas and further political objectives of Democrats?

All good points. I don’t see it gaining traction though. Without any mainstream media highlighting it, the general public will remain clueless on the subject.
We are at peak Mencken in these times.

FreeAndClear · 2020-10-03T12:56:58.393Z

Wait wait wait.

Am i on the right board

Isn’t this the board where we had several admonition a that the Obama admin refused to produce lethal aid to Ukraine and that it was not until the President that the aid was actually provided?

“Appears”.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T14:24:32.202Z

I doubt that Obama-Biden administration wanted to publicize what they were doing for both political and security reasons. As far as the equipment in the military parade, I suspect that the uniforms, trucks, vests, and practically everything else except the guns would fall under “non-lethal” aid.

It is clear that the Obama-Biden administration did successfully lobby to remove congressional restrictions on funding the Azov Battalion. I suspect it would run something like Churchill’s comment after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union:
If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. --Winston Churchill

Has Biden ever explained why his administration sought and got congressional approval for funding neo-Nazi militias?

Bill.in.PA · 2020-10-03T14:32:45.561Z

I think images of torchlit marches of neo-Nazi militias in Ukraine could be the basis of a devastating ad. The ad could include a couple of short quotes that show Biden’s connection to funding neo-Nazis and the connection of Ukrainian neo-Nazis to Charlottesville.

The ad would not have to come from the Trump campaign.