Should Baldwin be charged?

[WuWei]

1. That dumbass has no business trying to make a western.

2. That hoplophobe dumbass has no business profiting off of guns.

3. That dumbass isn’t smart enough to check a gun.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@Striker840

Which falls directly into my consistency argument.

But it doesn’t. How am I being inconsistent?

@Striker840

I don’t care who they are, what they do for a living, etc.

…neither do I.

@Striker840

You fail to follow established safety procedures you are liable if someone is injured or killed due to your failure to follow established safety procedures.

That’s just not how the law works, particularly criminal law. It’s never that simple.

Failing to do something is rarely a crime. There are some exceptions, negligent homicide occasionally being one of them - but correspondingly, it’s a very high bar to meet - intentionally so.

@Striker840

In this case we see excuses. No excuses here, he failed to verify the firearm was in a safe condition and a lady was killed and another individual was injured. He IS responsible.

You appear to be making a moral, or otherwise emotional argument.

The law isn’t an “excuse” - it’s the topic of conversation.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@Striker840

Re-read my post. The armorer will take the fall for this and he won’t.

Apologies, I did misread your post.

[Scratch]

@WuWei

1 That dumbass has no business trying to make a western.
That hoplophobe dumbass has no business profiting off of guns.

Both of those comments are ridiculous…

#1 Why not?..Do you have to live a “Western” life or agree with that life style to make a movie about it? Hence the word “Acting”. And he’s a really good actor to boot.

#2 He’s not profiting off guns, he’s profiting off a movie

[conan]

They will finish the movie once Baldwin is cleared…and it will be box office hit.

[Scratch]

Politics aside…He is a very good actor.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Striker840

@Supreme_War_Pig

To be clear, I am not trying to excuse Baldwin.

Since I have never seen a blank, I am trying to determine how he could have checked the round.

Oh I am not saying you were. You asked a very valid question for someone who is not familiar with firearms.

I appreciate it, thanks.

However, I do feel compelled to let everyone know that I own firearms, just don’t know what blanks look like.

[FloridaYankee]

These are the only type of blanks I’d ever seen until this thread.

[WuWei]

@Scratch

@WuWei

1 That dumbass has no business trying to make a western.
That hoplophobe dumbass has no business profiting off of guns.

Both of those comments are ridiculous…

#1 Why not?..Do you have to live a “Western” life or agree with that life style to make a movie about it? Hence the word “Acting”. And he’s a really good actor to boot.

#2 He’s not profiting off guns, he’s profiting off a movie

He’s a horrible “actor” and he’s from New York.

Of course he’s profiting off guns. Violent movies

[Scratch]

@WuWei

He’s a horrible “actor” and he’s from New York.

Of course he’s profiting off guns. Violent movies

His politics are blinding you… And do you have to be from the rural west to act in a western?

[WuWei]

@Scratch

@WuWei

He’s a horrible “actor” and he’s from New York.

Of course he’s profiting off guns. Violent movies

His politics are blinding you… And do you have to be from the rural west to act in a western?

No, just not New York. Or Boston.

[Striker840]

@Supreme_War_Pig

@Striker840

@Supreme_War_Pig

To be clear, I am not trying to excuse Baldwin.

Since I have never seen a blank, I am trying to determine how he could have checked the round.

Oh I am not saying you were. You asked a very valid question for someone who is not familiar with firearms.

I appreciate it, thanks.

However, I do feel compelled to let everyone know that I own firearms, just don’t know what blanks look like.

No worries, most people don’t. I am familiar with them because we used them in training when I was in the Marines. We also used something called a BFA, Blank Firing Adapter. It went on the end of the rifle and blocked off the barrel so nothing would exit the barrel when fired.

[JimmyC]

I bet he’s never given away a set of steak knives in his life!

[Scratch]

Whoosh…right over my head…lol

[JimmyC]

[SixFoot]

@WuWei

1. That dumbass has no business trying to make a western.

2. That hoplophobe dumbass has no business profiting off of guns.

3. That dumbass isn’t smart enough to check a gun.

But, like every other self-absorbed jackass, it’s different when he does it.

[Jezcoe]

@conan

Someone died/killed from Baldwin ignorance/arrogance…that is a fact.

Look man.

I have been working in this industry a long time.

When a actor is handed something and told the state of it they accept if.

That is just the way it is.

We can imagine that the reality is different and how it “should” be… but how it actually is is something different

[Samm]

@Striker840

@JimmyC

A difference between a movie set and real life is that in real life the gun is either loaded with live ammunition or not (is it common to shoot blanks in real life?). On a movie set should there ever be an expectation that the gun is loaded with live ammunition?

On a movie set, in the gun store, at home, setting is irrelevant, until verified by the holder, every firearm IS considered, and should be treated as if it has a live round in the chamber.

Short answer is yes, until otherwise verified visually, any firearm handed to you is considered loaded.

That’s only for people who don’t think that the NRA is a domestic terrorism organization, which should be banned and all its members sent to Guantanamo.

[Samm]

@conan

Yes. And while the cylinder is open without looking down the barrel but though it’s cylinder opening to see if their is daylight. Only takes a split second to check.

Not if the single action revolver is loaded. The operator would have to remove and inspect each round individually, in turn, one by one. Of course in this case the gun had been declared “cold” meaning it was unloaded. In that case, it would take only a few seconds to verify that there was no ammunition in the cylinder.

[Samm]

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@zantax

As I pointed out, Baldwin may have had training instructing him to always have whoever hands it to him show him personally that it isn’t loaded with live rounds. If he went ahead anyway and had that training…

Baldwin has probably had some sort of firearms training. I think he has been in situation on film where he has fired a weapon before.

He could also have taken the word of the AD because a lot of times that is how it works.

I don’t see him at fault in his role of an actor. That would fall on the Armorer, the AD and whoever the sociopath was that had live rounds on that set.

Baldwin as a producer holds responsibility.

I know that it is weird thing to parse out… but remember… I work in the industry and there is a wide gulf between what people say they should be doing and what actually happens on set.

Doesn’t excuse him in my opinion.
An actor should be required to physically check if a firearm is loaded or unloaded in front of a witness as soon as they are handed a firearm.

A 2 second check would have prevented this tragedy, 2 damn seconds. Pop the cylinder, see the round in there, empty said cylinder then fire the armorour who handed you the loaded firearm.

The cylinder does not “pop” open in a single action western style revolver.

While you are right, the actor should be required to verify that the gun is either empty or loaded with the correct dummy/blank rounds (which in turn, would require firearms training,) but the fact is, they are not. You cannot fairly assign responsibility retroactively.