Should an armed bystander who interrupted a mass shooting face charges?

It looks like the worst case would be a summary offense unless mall security had told the armed bystander to leave. I doubt that there will be any prosecution if the mall declines to press charges.

Here is the Pennsylvania statute:

Defiant trespasser.–

(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:

(i) actual communication to the actor;

(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;

(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;

(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person’s attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official;

(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer; or

(vi) subject to paragraph (3), the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property which are:

(A) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;

(B) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground nor more than five feet from the ground; and

(C) placed at locations that are readily visible to a person approaching the property and no more than 100 feet apart.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.035.003.000..HTM

Was he asked to leave by mall security or anyone else representing the mall?

Very unlikely. I have seen no evidence that that happened, the news report says that police allowed him to leave after taking the guns.

Does that matter? If I ignore a no trespassing sign, am I only breaking the law if I ignore an order to leave?

According to the law posted, yes, it matters.

My niece was actually in that mall when this happened. So I am grateful that guy had his gun. Even if it was technically illegal for him to have it, this is Lancaster not Philly. There is no way they would find a jury to convict him if they tried.

2 Likes

Thats not what it says…Right up top (1) (ii)

Defiant trespasser.–

(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:

(i) actual communication to the actor;

(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders

If the mall declines to file charges it is highly unlikely that the bystander would be convicted even if the DA pursues the case. The bystander could claim that he was reasonably believed that the owner allowed him to enter, and the owner is not disputing that belief.

(c) Defenses.–It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) a building or occupied structure involved in an offense under subsection (a) of this section was abandoned;

(2) the premises were at the time open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or

(3) the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain.

If they wanted to allow people to carry, why would that sign be up? What would make him “reasonably believe”?

The key words are "if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person."

If the man was not so ordered, he was not breaking the law.

If a delivery man leaves a package at the door of a house with a bunch trespassing signs around the yard, was he trespassing?

If the property owner says that he does not consider a delivery to be trespassing, could the DA get a conviction?

It’s not a matter of what they wanted, it’s a matter of whether the man broke the law.

You left out the rest…

“An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.”

1(v) makes it a 1st degree…otherwise its a 3rd dregee

You conveniently left out:

" … if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person."

He obviously did…They had a sign up stating no weapons…which he ignored.

That was already a given. Without defying an order to leave the premises, there is no crime.

Will they charge the armed police officers who came to the scene with trespassing?

2 Likes

No! The law is clear. He must defy an order to leave the premises be be in criminal violation.

Thats not what it states…defying an order only increases the crime from 3rd to 1st degeee.

Ok…I see it. Its still a summary offense.