Self-Defense or Manslaughter

Samm · 2020-05-07T06:58:53.436Z

WildRose:

Well no, we really don’t know how this began, only how it ended.

You are right about that, but I personally cannot think of any legitimate reason for those men to do what they did (prior to the shooting) in the manner that they did it. If they had simply followed him and called the police if they truly believed he was a criminal and possibly armed, this would not have occurred.

WildRose · 2020-05-07T07:08:07.819Z

Well for one if they had a reasonable belief he was a fleeing felon at least under our laws pursuit and stopping him would be perfectly lawful.

Still too many unknowns here to draw any conclusions.

moonshine · 2020-05-07T12:28:01.160Z

once again a black man gets killed needlessly,this time for jogging while black.
arrest the 2 for murder.convict them
then execute them.

thats the only way to put an end to this.

occu · 2020-05-07T14:30:03.479Z

WildRose:

Well for one if they had a reasonable belief he was a fleeing felon at least under our laws pursuit and stopping him would be perfectly lawful.

Still too many unknowns here to draw any conclusions.

What reason would they have to think that he was a fleeing felon?

SixFoot · 2020-05-07T14:32:54.464Z

A couple of do-gooder jackasses looking for a concrete home to live in.

WuWei · 2020-05-07T14:52:41.413Z

SixFoot:

A couple of do-gooder jackasses looking for a concrete home to live in.

One of which was a cop who couldn’t take his badge off.

Guvnah · 2020-05-07T15:53:35.468Z

Scratch:

??? He was jogging and they got in front of him?..Was he supposed to change directions because of them?

Early in the thread there is a link to a piece with quotes from the police report.

In fact, the jogger at one point did turn around and ran the other way. And the guys in the truck pursued again.

The video only shows the end of the event. Everything else in media reports are what one-guy-or-another said. I can’t trust the media to report accurately any more. And I have to take with a grain of salt what people who could be on the hook for murder would say as their alibis.

The article about the police report talks about locals being frustrated with break-ins in the area. It says, “surveillance video in the neighborhood had earlier captured Arbery in suspicious circumstances. McMichael told police.” (Of course, again, that’s the words of McMichael. Maybe they will produce the video showing that.)

All we can do here is get mad at each other for not agreeing with one argument or another. It serves no good purpose.

Let the investigations and courts decide this.

Guvnah · 2020-05-07T15:57:48.391Z

occu:

What reason would they have to think that he was a fleeing felon?

The article about the police report contains their justification for it.

The courts can decide if that was adequate justification.

Guvnah · 2020-05-07T15:58:13.077Z

WuWei:

One of which was a cop who couldn’t take his badge off.

Retired cop.

WuWei · 2020-05-07T15:59:11.215Z

Guvnah:

WuWei:

One of which was a cop who couldn’t take his badge off.

Retired cop.

Obviously not mentally.

Scratch · 2020-05-07T16:02:02.969Z

WildRose:

And if he’d simply stopped at a safe distance to see what was going on and engaged he’d still be alive.

Guvnah:

Early in the thread there is a link to a piece with quotes from the police report.

In fact, the jogger at one point did turn around and ran the other way. And the guys in the truck pursued again.

Does this info make you feel differently?

Ben_Natuf · 2020-05-07T16:51:39.968Z

and what are people charged with when they kill someone in the commission of a felony?

Rangerazlm · 2020-05-07T16:53:00.923Z

WildRose:

egitimate reason for trying to stop the guy and a reasonable suspicion he was a felon so confronting him unarmed would be a very bad idea.

I just don’t understand. I am all for the second amendment. It is a human right. Second amendment is given by God, but this guy was wrongfully stopped under the suspicion of being part of a crime. The police wouldn’t have a right to detain him, why should they. In the transcript they don’t even mention a description given to them, but they mention that they were told the alleged perpetrator took off down the street. At that point, they took the law into their own hands, were wrong about it, and BOTH acted in self defense. These men deserve jail. They shouldn’t have acted on that alone. Did they even alert the authorities before doing this? I can’t believe I read someone saying it is the victims fault for not running a certain way. He wasn’t doing anything illegal. They had no right to even attempt to detain him. What was their probable cause? That some dude ran a certain direction down the street???

Ben_Natuf · 2020-05-07T16:54:33.027Z

Guvnah:

“surveillance video in the neighborhood had earlier captured Arbery in suspicious circumstances. McMichael told police.”

if this is true, it changes things because their actions would fit the statute.

Rangerazlm · 2020-05-07T16:56:25.279Z

Guvnah:

bery in suspicious circumstances. McMichael told police.”

Define suspicious circumstances?

Scratch · 2020-05-07T16:57:36.842Z

Yes… I can’t understand how certain posters here csn’t grasp that. They took law into their own hands. Who are they to chase someone down and detain them with guns drawn? Thats like wild west stuff…If they were so concerned about him…all they had to do is keep an eye on him until cops got there.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-05-07T16:58:54.538Z

the statute requires reasonable suspicion with a fleeing suspect. not a real high bar

Rangerazlm · 2020-05-07T16:59:13.586Z

Scratch:

can’t understand how certain posters here csn’t grasp that. They took law into their own hands. Who are they to chase someone down and detain them with guns drawn? Thats like the wild west

Also, one could argue that they aggressed first. As someone who isn’t doing anything wrong, and someone comes storming in with car and guns, I would presume I am in a fight or die situation. Like seriously, if anything, he acted in self defense first. I am no lawyer, but there is something very very wrong here. The fact it took a video to get an investigation is pitiful.

Rangerazlm · 2020-05-07T17:02:45.436Z

But what is that? In the transcript they mention someone running down a road. They chased in that direction where this happened. So you are telling me that is reasonable suspicion to stop anyone on that street with a truck and two guns? Reasonable suspicion NEEDS to be a high bar. Or it is ripe for abuse. They didn’t even mention clothing, height, all that. If a police stopped someone that aggressively based on only the fact he ran down the street, the police would be relieved.

occu · 2020-05-07T17:07:58.989Z

They thought he matched a suspect from a recent break in.

Not exactly a fleeing felon.