San Bernardino says no to wind and solar plants

[Samm]

@sikofit

@Mountain_Soldier

So farmers will never have a say. Cool.

Why should a farmer’s vote be more important than anyone else’s?

Because the project affects them the most. The real question is, why do you think the city dwellers, who have the most to gain and nonthing to lose, should be able to impose their will over those with the most to lose and nothing to gain? That essentially is the definition of tyranny.

[Samm]

@sikofit

@Mountain_Soldier

Let’s use the wind farm. A bunch of city dwellers decide they want a wind farm built right next to a bunch of farm land (because they don’t want it anywhere near their city). The farmers shouldn’t have a say in any part of the process?

It’s cool.

No, they have the same amount of say as every other voter. The way our founders intended

Wrong. The Founders rejected Democracy in favor of a Republic for the protection of the minority. And you should be thankful that they did. Everyone is in the minority about something.

[FloridaYankee]

@Samm

Because the project affects them the most. The real question is, why do you think the city dwellers, who have the most to gain and nonthing to lose, should be able to impose their will over those with the most to lose and nothing to gain? That essentially is the definition of tyranny.

It goes beyond having more to lose. The majority does not get to violate the rights of the minority.

[Samm]

@LucyLou

@Mountain_Soldier

Yeah who cares about farmers. Suburban residents are obviously much better people.

Simple majority rules? Ok.

Farmers here are leasing fields to the power companies for both wind and solar, because the income is better and more reliable than crops. Win win.

Winning!

True, but you can’t eat electricity.

[LucyLou]

@Samm

@LucyLou

@Mountain_Soldier

Yeah who cares about farmers. Suburban residents are obviously much better people.

Simple majority rules? Ok.

Farmers here are leasing fields to the power companies for both wind and solar, because the income is better and more reliable than crops. Win win.

Winning!

True, but you can’t eat electricity.

We have no shortages of corn or soybeans.

It’s better income, easier income, surer income than growing the crops.

The land is perfectly capable of being returned to cropland when the leases are up. If that’s what the farmers wish to do.

[WuWei]

@Samm

for the protection of the minority.

Individual.

[Ex-Pat]

Yeah, Jellyfish will be just fine. But we are already seeing the destruction of our coral reefs. Earth might be back to normal in a few million years, but that isn’t exactly in my grandchildren’s lifetimes.

[Auto129]

People living downstream of where coal is dug out the ground or downwind of where it’s burned don’t get half as much consideration as the hypothetical farmers in this discussion. So I have a hard time accepting that definition of tyranny when these farmers get a fair vote to make their case.

[Samm]

@LucyLou

@Samm

@LucyLou

@Mountain_Soldier

Yeah who cares about farmers. Suburban residents are obviously much better people.

Simple majority rules? Ok.

Farmers here are leasing fields to the power companies for both wind and solar, because the income is better and more reliable than crops. Win win.

Winning!

True, but you can’t eat electricity.

We have no shortages of corn or soybeans.

It’s better income, easier income, surer income than growing the crops.

The land is perfectly capable of being returned to cropland when the leases are up. If that’s what the farmers wish to do.

Yet.

Yep … but as I said, you can’t eat electricity. And the farmer would probably make more money if he leased his land to a oil production business or a coal strip miner too. How would you feel about that?

If it goes back to food production at the end of the lease, the electricity goes away. Isn’t renewable power supposed to be like forever?

[Samm]

@WuWei

@Samm

for the protection of the minority.

Individual.

The ultimate minority.

[LucyLou]

@Samm

@LucyLou

@Samm

@LucyLou

@Mountain_Soldier

Yeah who cares about farmers. Suburban residents are obviously much better people.

Simple majority rules? Ok.

Farmers here are leasing fields to the power companies for both wind and solar, because the income is better and more reliable than crops. Win win.

Winning!

True, but you can’t eat electricity.

We have no shortages of corn or soybeans.

It’s better income, easier income, surer income than growing the crops.

The land is perfectly capable of being returned to cropland when the leases are up. If that’s what the farmers wish to do.

Yet.

Yep … but as I said, you can’t eat electricity. And the farmer would probably make more money if he leased his land to a oil production business or a coal strip miner too. How would you feel about that?

If it goes back to food production at the end of the lease, the electricity goes away. Isn’t renewable power supposed to be like forever?

Jeezuz.

[Samm]

@Ex-Pat

Yeah, Jellyfish will be just fine. But we are already seeing the destruction of our coral reefs. Earth might be back to normal in a few million years, but that isn’t exactly in my grandchildren’s lifetimes.

If warmer temperatures and/or higher CO2 were going to cause the death of coral reefs, they would have been gone long before man evolved.

Your grandchildren will be gone with the rest of us. Don’t worry about them.

[Samm]

I fail to see the connection. Just because someone else is getting a raw deal does not mean that people should accept it when they get a raw deal.

[Samm]

What does he have to do with it?

[vaard]

only good thing to come out of san bernardino was a zappa song…

[FloridaYankee]

Now here is an ACTUAL nimby namby pamby case. It’s my view, not yours!

Scottish government wins Donald Trump wind power legal costs

[sikofit]

The world’s largest and second largest solar farms just began operations in California.

World's Largest Solar Farm Goes Online In California

https://inhabitat.com/massive-579mw-solar-star-power-plant-goes-online-in-california/

[Snow96]

From the first link:

Located in San Luis Obispo County on California’s Carrizo Plain, Topaz consists of a whopping nine million solar panels sprawling across 9.5 square miles of land.

the $2.5 billion project

enough to supply around 160,000 average homes.

Largest solar farm in the world cost 2.5 BILLION dollars, covers 10 square miles, and is ONLY enough to supply 160,000 homes when the sun is shinning.

Let all that sink in for a few minutes.

[Guilds]

@WuWei

Reminiscent of the Martha’s Vineyard “not in my view” a few years ago?

This project is a go now.

Two big wind farms to rise off coast of Martha’s Vineyard - The Boston Globe

The whiners lost.

[sikofit]

@Snow96

Largest solar farm in the world cost 2.5 BILLION dollars, covers 10 square miles, and is ONLY enough to supply 160,000 homes when the sun is shinning.

Let all that sink in for a few minutes.

Let what sink in? That similar sized (and outdated) coal fired power plants cost about the same? The solar plant cost 550 MW for $2.5 billion while the below 600 MW coal-fired power plant cost $2 billion way back in 2006.

reports_35.pdf