People are mostly good

TriggerWarning · 2018-07-20T05:54:28.729Z

Konssurvative1:

What is your job…judgemental snobish cigarette and lottery ticket counter?

Bad boys, bad boys what ya gonna do when they come for you. (and your welcome if that song is in your head now).

On an average shift I’m in about 10-15 people’s homes. Every single day. And usually in poor neighborhoods as thats where most calls for service come from. So yeah, I have a huge base of experience to draw from.

You can theorize or argue as the reasons but its statistically true beyond any shadow of a doubt that poor people smoke cigarettes fare more than wealthy. Every other day or so I end up in a rich person’s home, virtually never see evidence of cigarette smoking. Almost without fail when at a poor person’s home handling a call they are smoking while I’m talking to them.

Or how about some charts from the CDC showing that smoking is far far more prevalent amongst the poor which is exactly what I’m saying.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparities/low-ses/index.htm

Nemesis · 2018-07-20T11:14:12.142Z

I find it awfully convenient that whenever these anecdotal stories rear their head the teller has perfect examples of how they have these stories including they classic I have a friend of family member on welfare and a job that brings them in perfect proximity to the poor so they can make these observations.

Sorry mate but I don’t believe a word of what you are saying. Every angle of your anecdotal evidence just has too much perfect evidence. It seems every aspect of your life is designed to bring you into contact with the poor.

There will always be people who take advantage of any assistance e whether it’s benefits or tax loopholes. Doesn’t matter what social strata you are from there are inherently dishonest people who will always take advantage. Do you think that somehow the middle and upper classes are lesser dishonest. Pick up any newspaper and daily you will read stories of charity trustees, church officials, firemen, policemen, teachers being convicted of crimes.

Girl_from_Ipanema · 2018-07-20T11:23:44.906Z

Did we even get a thread about those children in Thailand or the diver who gave his life saving them?

With this new board software, threads could get easily overlooked, so I won’t say there isn’t one, but I don’t recall seeing it.

Cynic · 2018-07-20T11:26:13.751Z

You sound like you really care. To say I am happy to hear what your profession is would be a lie.

Girl_from_Ipanema · 2018-07-20T11:30:31.573Z

Hahahaha! That just reminded me of something that happened some years ago.

I was scurrying between tasks at work one day a few years ago and I saw an older gentleman standing in one of our common areas looking misplaced.

I stopped to ask if he needed help and he said that he was looking for a phone and why. Well, the pay phone was in another building and it was hot outside and the task I was going to was only going to take a few seconds, so I gave him my phone and told him I’d be back to pick it up.

When I came back a few minutes later, he thanked me for letting him use my phone and then scolded me for leaving it with a stranger!

Konssurvative1 · 2018-07-20T12:20:06.554Z

I used to work in child protective services…saw same things…i guess I wonder why you seem so judgemental about the poor?

TriggerWarning · 2018-07-20T18:55:13.870Z

Nemesis:

I find it awfully convenient that whenever these anecdotal stories

The CDC study I linked is anecdotal? Okay then.

TriggerWarning · 2018-07-20T19:05:39.536Z

Konssurvative1:

I used to work in child protective services…saw same things…i guess I wonder why you seem so judgemental about the poor?

Because so many of them are poor because of their own choices.

Well over 90% of calls for service to people’s residences will be in the poor sections of town. Some of that is undoubtedly because most criminals and drug addicts tend to be poor due to their lifestyle choices and thus get stuck in the poor parts of town.

You’ll note that I had nothing but positive to say about the hispanic poor. You can say what you want either way about illegal immigration but the one truism that seems to prevalent amongst the families that come here is that they do work and work hard and keep a clean house and don’t fritter away their money on stupid things like cigarettes and lottery tickets. It called making good choices with your money. The one slight caveat is that if you have a single hispanic male illegal immigrant it changes a bit as they tend to blow their money on beer, Sunday is often the only day off the hispanic farm workers get around here and it turns into drunk fest in the hispanic parts of town. But when its a whole family its different.

But I’m judgemental when I see 3/4’s of the people in the foodbank line smoking because if they weren’t smokers they may well not need food bank help.

I’m judgemental because I did shop with a cop one year. This is a program meant to help provide a good Christmas to children from poor families. This was roughly 2007 or so and the X-Box 360 and Playstation 3 were both brand new systems then. Every kid got assigned to a cop and who then helped them go buy a present for up to $50. Easily 80% of the kids from these POOR families bought games for these two brand new gaming systems and most of the kids were picking adult only games like Grand Theft Auto or Saints Row. Top of the line gaming systems yet they are poor. Its about choices.

I was absolutely disgusted and have never done it again though one little girl did impress me. She was hispanic, note what I said about hispanic families, and instead of spending all $50 on herself she got dolls and and other cheaper toys for herself and her three siblings. She only had $5 left and wanted to get some cheap items for her parents but didn’t have enough, several of us chipped in money for her to get it because we were so impressed by her vs how disgusted we were about the others. One of the white trash moms saw us doing it though and got angry that her child, who had bought Saints Row for the 360, wasn’t getting more money to buy another game.

Its about choices. Make good ones like many of the hispanic families do and spend your money right and try to better yourselves and I’ll have sympathy and help you out. Spend your money on cigarettes, lottery tickets, etc and you deserve to wallow in your poverty and you don’t deserve financial help.

Nemesis · 2018-07-20T19:13:02.935Z

You really are spouting complete bollocks. You are setting yourself up as some expert in poverty for all demographics. The reasons for poverty are not as simplistic as you make out but please dont forget to finish off this thread about telling us how you were born into poverty but through hard work and sacrifice you are now financially independent. Dont forget the tried and tested talking points of how you raised a family, worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time (all true hannity message-board anecdotes from other posters in the past) all while maxing out contributions into your 401K each year and flipping houses.

mwevans1234 · 2018-07-20T20:33:10.030Z

Don’t forget the 10% tithe…

TriggerWarning · 2018-07-20T22:43:22.734Z

Nemesis:

You really are spouting complete bollocks. You are setting yourself up as some expert in poverty for all demographics. The reasons for poverty are not as simplistic as you make out but please dont forget to finish off this thread about telling us how you were born into poverty but through hard work and sacrifice you are now financially independent. Dont forget the tried and tested talking points of how you raised a family, worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time (all true hannity message-board anecdotes from other posters in the past) all while maxing out contributions into your 401K each year and flipping houses.

Your close. Worked hard in high school to get good grades and got a scholarship for college that paid about 70%. Managed to graduate with only about $10,000 in debt, half of which the govt paid off because of a federal loan program that repays your loans if you go into a service career like public safety, nursing, or teaching. Paid off my first 30 year mortgage on our starter house in 13 years. Upgraded to bigger more expensive house years ago. Did a 15 year mortgage and am on pace to pay it off in 9 years. Zero debt beyond my mortgage in part because I drive a 2007 vehicle that I bought used rather than spend outside my means and go in debt.

Have nearly 100k in my private 401 k and a pension to boot which is employee funded as 10% our pay goes to fund it. Will retire comfortably at age 51 in a few years with an income of about $5500 a month before taxes and thats only if I choose not to work another career or job.

My mother was a chain smoker and frittered away hundreds of dollars a month to the habit which is a huge part of my disdain toward smokers. I don’t smoke and that money goes to other things.

I don’t flip houses though.

Love though how I provided CDC stats on smokers showing its a poor thing yet you and others keep acting like I’m being anecdotal. Stats back up what I see every day and what I see every day shows the truth to me in those stats.

Nemesis · 2018-07-22T01:39:18.228Z

TriggerWarning:

Nemesis:

You really are spouting complete bollocks. You are setting yourself up as some expert in poverty for all demographics. The reasons for poverty are not as simplistic as you make out but please dont forget to finish off this thread about telling us how you were born into poverty but through hard work and sacrifice you are now financially independent. Dont forget the tried and tested talking points of how you raised a family, worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time (all true hannity message-board anecdotes from other posters in the past) all while maxing out contributions into your 401K each year and flipping houses.

Your close. Worked hard in high school to get good grades and got a scholarship for college that paid about 70%. Managed to graduate with only about $10,000 in debt, half of which the govt paid off because of a federal loan program that repays your loans if you go into a service career like public safety, nursing, or teaching. Paid off my first 30 year mortgage on our starter house in 13 years. Upgraded to bigger more expensive house years ago. Did a 15 year mortgage and am on pace to pay it off in 9 years. Zero debt beyond my mortgage in part because I drive a 2007 vehicle that I bought used rather than spend outside my means and go in debt.

Have nearly 100k in my private 401 k and a pension to boot which is employee funded as 10% our pay goes to fund it. Will retire comfortably at age 51 in a few years with an income of about $5500 a month before taxes and thats only if I choose not to work another career or job.

My mother was a chain smoker and frittered away hundreds of dollars a month to the habit which is a huge part of my disdain toward smokers. I don’t smoke and that money goes to other things.

I don’t flip houses though.

Love though how I provided CDC stats on smokers showing its a poor thing yet you and others keep acting like I’m being anecdotal. Stats back up what I see every day and what I see every day shows the truth to me in those stats.

LOL cool story bro.

Out of your entire discourse the only area you attempted to offer any real evidence was about smokings so forgive me for not giving you any credit. Why dont you do some more research and find out why smoking in poor communities is more prevalent. Tobacco companies focus their advertising on poorer communities and there are more retailers in poorer areas (just like your more likely to find a McDonalds in poorer areas than affluent ones). Cigarettes are an addictive product and as much as I detest smoking I do understand it is difficult to quit once you start. A quick google search will show that everything I have said is accurate and backed up by research.

This is the problem with posters that hold your opinions, you dont want to look below the surface to find out what are the causes of an issue. But let me guess you think anyone who is persuaded by marketing are weak minded. I am also waiting for you to tell me you were a smoker but gave it up with no second thought.

You are absolutely right that personal decision do factor into poverty but that is not the sole factor or even the predominant factor.

TriggerWarning · 2018-07-22T15:06:10.787Z

I already provided a link to a study about smokers and the poor. And by the way cool story bro about blaming it on the cigarette companies and marketing to the poor. Its 2018 bro, when was the last time you saw a cigarette ad? They’ve been banned from nearly everything for decades.

Here is a link to a study about how the poor are by far the biggest consumers of lottery tickets. Who plays the lottery, and why: Updated collection of research

"Those in the lowest fifth in terms of socioeconomic status (SES) had the “highest rate of lottery gambling (61%) and the highest mean level of days gambled in the past year (26.1 days).”

The lottery is advertised to everyone equally as its largely done on TV. Again its about choices and the poor make bad choices. Granted you could again as I suggested that they are poor because they fritter away their money on the lottery. However I think its just more endemic of their overall makeup in that a bad choice in choosing to smoke and play the lottery is predictive of their bad choices with money in everything.

There are some valid points to made about a culture of poverty where parents who are mired in poverty teach their children to live by the same bad choices. But at the end of the day its still choices.

Not too long ago I was at a family domestic where the 20 year daughter was screaming at her parents about how unfair they were because they wouldn’t buy her a car. The parent were yelling back that she needed to get a job to afford a car. She was screaming back “I cant get an effing job if I don’t have an effing car.” I pointed out to her that there were currently at least 10 businesses (which I named) within a mile of their residence who had perpetual now hiring signs out because they struggle to find employees to which I got told to **** off by the 20 year old. She was choosing not to work and blame others for her being poor. Which is pretty endemic. Oh crap, there I go being anecdotal again.

I applaud the kid in the original story, the one who was walking 20 miles. It was the girl I mentioned above I largely thinking about as she was the most recent when I made my first comment.

Konssurvative1 · 2018-07-22T15:22:22.379Z

Fair enough. I get your point…and understand why you feel that way. Thanks for deeper explanation.

TheRedComet · 2018-07-22T18:21:08.578Z

Well in general the poor are more stressed than the wealthy for obvious reasons. Cigarettes, correctly or incorrectly, are seen as a way to reduce stress.

Janet_Miller · 2018-07-23T10:16:35.931Z

“Sorry mate but I don’t believe a word of what you’re saying.”

The man is a police officer who gets most of his calls in low income households, & he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? I guess the CDC & the young black woman on TV doesn’t know what they’re doing, either, when they denounce smoking ads aimed at minority Americans.

I just imagined that in wealthy Westborough, you won’t see almost any cigarette butts in the street, but if you’re sent to a campus of UMass Hospital in the bad part of Worcester, almost everyone nearby—even the hospital employees on break—are smoking.

Must be nice to call others liars.

Janet_Miller · 2018-07-23T10:41:07.596Z

So, the solution is something unhealthy & costly rather than, say, a long walk around the block?

I’m in agreement with the LEO poster about Latino poor. As a rule, they tend to fritter away less money on nonessentials than Caucasian poor like lottery tickets & save what they can manage to save once expenses are paid.

They also tend to come up with less excuses about why they can’t work various jobs than Caucasian poor. Generally one doesn’t hear them whine various jobs don’t pay enough—as if $0.00 is more than minimum wage—or fuss that it isn’t bankers’ hours, or involves hazardous duty.

Can’t cite a single Hispanic I’ve known whose whined they make more on UI than on whatever job while I’ve long since lost count of the number of non Hispanic whites who do that.

Can you think of anyone Hispanic who laments “maybe if certain jobs paid more money, more Americans would take them?” I can’t. They have less of an attitude of entitlement & more willingness to get straight to work.

Janet_Miller · 2018-07-23T10:44:02.314Z

That family whose daughter refused to work should have met my Puerto Rican friend, Luz.

She once dated a Caucasian who kept sabotaging his chances for work, even selling a vehicle with a fixable problem.

She finally bought him a bus pass & put money on it herself.

TheRedComet · 2018-07-23T10:48:29.401Z

I agree it’s stupid. And I’m a smoker who’s constantly trying to quit.

I’ve always said that many of the people in poverty make it worse on themselves with bad financial decisions.

The absolute worst thing one can do is have kids before you’re financially established. Like a house, vehicles that are mostly paid for, etc.

The only reason I was able to get by for most of my early 20s was that I was smart and didn’t have any kids. It makes it a lot easier to save money.

Janet_Miller · 2018-07-23T13:06:32.527Z

“The absolutely worse thing one can do is have kids before you’re financially established.”

This bears repeating 1,000 times.

It amazes me a few in this thread are referring to “the poor” as if this was the condemnation of being born a low or non caste Hindu.

It isn’t. Sure, things happen unexpectedly, like job losses & serious illness.

Many poor in the U S are in the situations they are due to bad decisions, like having several children before they are in a stable marriage & with established credit.

People like yourself who are more responsible tend to control their fertility until they have an adequate partnership, resources & time for a child. I hope you succeed in quitting smoking.