41

I think the solution starts around 6th grade or so.
In most of the world (Russia, Taiwan etc.) nearly 100% of college bound students have had what we call “college calculus” while still in HS.

In the US 50% of entering college students (which is what? 50% of HS graduates)
are not ready for what US colleges call “college math”.

They need
developmental math
then 3-4 semesters of what we call college math,
then they are ready to begin what is high school math everywhere else in the world.

We are the Zambia of math science education

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42

But . . . if you want to short cut the process by handing out med school scholarships I’m game.

The average cost of medical school for first-year students in 2021-22 is between $39,237 and $63,630 (link below)

In exchange for that, our doctors earn what French doctors earn plus $218,000/year for 40 years. The problem right now is so bad, so ridiculously far off the tracks, the cost of med school is negligible. We could try a pilot program.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/cost-of-medical-school/#:~:text=What%20Is%20the%20Average%20Cost,students%2C%20but%20not%20living%20expenses.

43

How about 5 years of obligatory government service at a living wage and the debt is paid for by the government taxpayers?

44

Again, that isn’t accurate, that figure isn’t take home pay, much of it goes out to insurance and office costs.

45

Average total education debt of med school students is $200k-$240k depending on source.

Right now we pay doctors $218,000 per year more than France pays its doctors. (And a medical career is 40 years long)

Med school free, college free give all do it all, free car and maid service while in Med school . . . but only on a pilot basis, because we will rapidly see the $200k-240k in education debt is not the problem and the cost of that failed experiment will be small compared to the real problem (grotesquely overpaid US physicians.)

This source says average debt is $205k
https://www.credible.com/blog/statistics/average-student-loan-debt-for-medical-school

This source says average debt is $240k

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46

Look at the additional training costs and hours.

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47

You don’t repay 205k, back when the debt was $166,750 the amount actually needed to pay it off was $497,738. Now add in ten years of additional training loss of income.

48

Our doctors are overpaid

image
image374×621 19 KB

https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specialty/

49

Only if you ignore the costs involved.

50

They get $218,000 a year (for 40 years) more than French doctors . . . US doctors graduate with an average less than $240,000 in med school debt. gimme a break. They break even by their first summer.

But as I said if you would like to slash doctor salaries 70% for life (down to French levels) in exchange for given them $240,000 worth of free med school be my guest.

What happened to our steel industry when we paid our steel workers many times the world average?

51

Doubtful my daughter will make more as a doctor than her dad did in finance with a basic four year degree.

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52

That not how debt works, they don’t have the cash to pay it off in a lump sum, consequently they pay years of interest. If you want the top people to go into medicine they have to be getting the top salaries in the country, it’s that simple. It wouldn’t be my career choice if my sole goal was higher income, much easier ways to make more in this country.

53

I thought it was closer to 70%. Either way its MOSTLY socialized.

Don’t expect much.

54

You have to remember we are talking the most academically gifted, most of them would not have any problem graduating top of their class and landing hedge fund jobs instead.

55

Plus startup costs for a practice. And especially, plus malpractice insurance.

56

Possible.

I’m not mad at doctors or anything.

I get upset at folks who blame the private insurance industry when
66% of the insurance payments are made by the government
US doctors get 3 times what French doctors get, and
we have the world’s only jackpot lawsuit industry.

The real costs are obvious.
Distracting from those obvious problems for political gains is criminal.

57

And it’s not just four either, then you have three years as a crappy pay intern. More for specialists. Already like roughly 30-40 percent of doctors say if they had it do over they wouldn’t choose the profession. Every general practitioner my daughter talked to prior to going to med school told her to pick something else. But she wasn’t in it for the money and really, given her personality and make up she had no choice, she is driven to heal and help people. She will deserve every dime she earns and the people lucky enough to get her services will be getting a bargain.

58

Especially when it is used in isolation.

Startup costs for a practice can be like a whole mortgage. Ditto a quarter million in education debt once they graduate. Tack on 25-50K in annual malpractice insurance for a lot of doctors.

But too many people just see the average income, and default to class warfare.

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59

Takes a ridiculously high salary to justify sitting out of the work place for ten or fifteen years.

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60

BTW, once you become a doctor, you have to keep up with the latest training, procedures, practices…

We want our doctors to be perfect. If they make a mistake, we want to sue the hell out of them. (Thus, the high malpractice insurance rates, to address our litigious society.) We want it all from them.

But now it seems we don’t want to pay them for it.

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