Over half of Mississippi's rural hospitals risk closing

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:10:31.647Z

Gaius:

Average total education debt of med school students is $200k-$240k depending on source.

Right now we pay doctors $218,000 per year more than France pays its doctors. (And a medical career is 40 years long)

Med school free, college free give all do it all, free car and maid service while in Med school . . . but only on a pilot basis, because we will rapidly see the $200k-240k in education debt is not the problem and the cost of that failed experiment will be small compared to the real problem (grotesquely overpaid US physicians.)

This source says average debt is $205k
https://www.credible.com/blog/statistics/average-student-loan-debt-for-medical-school

This source says average debt is $240k
Average Medical School Debt [2023]: Student Loan Statistics

You don’t repay 205k, back when the debt was $166,750 the amount actually needed to pay it off was $497,738. Now add in ten years of additional training loss of income.

cbsnews.com

$1 million mistake: Becoming a doctor

New survey shows that more than half of physicians wouldn't pursue career in medicine if given another chance

Gaius · 2022-11-23T15:10:58.292Z

Our doctors are overpaid

image374×621 19 KB

https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/doctor-salaries-by-specialty/

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:11:38.708Z

Only if you ignore the costs involved.

Gaius · 2022-11-23T15:16:39.240Z

They get $218,000 a year (for 40 years) more than French doctors . . . US doctors graduate with an average less than $240,000 in med school debt. gimme a break. They break even by their first summer.

But as I said if you would like to slash doctor salaries 70% for life (down to French levels) in exchange for given them $240,000 worth of free med school be my guest.

What happened to our steel industry when we paid our steel workers many times the world average?

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:16:41.315Z

Doubtful my daughter will make more as a doctor than her dad did in finance with a basic four year degree.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:18:25.889Z

Gaius:

They get $218,000 a year (for 40 years) more than French doctors . . . US doctors graduate with an average less than $240,000 in med school debt. gimme a break. They break even by their first summer.

But as I said if you would like to slash doctor salaries 70% for life (down to French levels) in exchange for given them $240,000 worth of free med school be my guest.

What happened to our steel industry when we paid our steel workers many times the world average?

That not how debt works, they don’t have the cash to pay it off in a lump sum, consequently they pay years of interest. If you want the top people to go into medicine they have to be getting the top salaries in the country, it’s that simple. It wouldn’t be my career choice if my sole goal was higher income, much easier ways to make more in this country.

Camp · 2022-11-23T15:20:38.897Z

I thought it was closer to 70%. Either way its MOSTLY socialized.

Don’t expect much.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:21:46.525Z

You have to remember we are talking the most academically gifted, most of them would not have any problem graduating top of their class and landing hedge fund jobs instead.

Guvnah · 2022-11-23T15:21:48.837Z

zantax:

Nobody is going to waste four or more years in med school for less in the US.

Plus startup costs for a practice. And especially, plus malpractice insurance.

Gaius · 2022-11-23T15:22:16.177Z

Possible.

I’m not mad at doctors or anything.

I get upset at folks who blame the private insurance industry when
66% of the insurance payments are made by the government
US doctors get 3 times what French doctors get, and
we have the world’s only jackpot lawsuit industry.

The real costs are obvious.
Distracting from those obvious problems for political gains is criminal.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:24:24.952Z

Guvnah:

zantax:

Nobody is going to waste four or more years in med school for less in the US.

Plus startup costs for a practice. And especially, plus malpractice insurance.

And it’s not just four either, then you have three years as a crappy pay intern. More for specialists. Already like roughly 30-40 percent of doctors say if they had it do over they wouldn’t choose the profession. Every general practitioner my daughter talked to prior to going to med school told her to pick something else. But she wasn’t in it for the money and really, given her personality and make up she had no choice, she is driven to heal and help people. She will deserve every dime she earns and the people lucky enough to get her services will be getting a bargain.

Guvnah · 2022-11-23T15:29:35.897Z

WuWei:

Averages are tricky.

Especially when it is used in isolation.

Startup costs for a practice can be like a whole mortgage. Ditto a quarter million in education debt once they graduate. Tack on 25-50K in annual malpractice insurance for a lot of doctors.

But too many people just see the average income, and default to class warfare.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:31:24.535Z

Takes a ridiculously high salary to justify sitting out of the work place for ten or fifteen years.

Guvnah · 2022-11-23T15:37:05.126Z

BTW, once you become a doctor, you have to keep up with the latest training, procedures, practices…

We want our doctors to be perfect. If they make a mistake, we want to sue the hell out of them. (Thus, the high malpractice insurance rates, to address our litigious society.) We want it all from them.

But now it seems we don’t want to pay them for it.

Gaius · 2022-11-23T15:37:53.421Z

Guvnah:

WuWei:

Averages are tricky.

Especially when it is used in isolation.

Startup costs for a practice can be like a whole mortgage. Ditto a quarter million in education debt once they graduate. Tack on 25-50K in annual malpractice insurance for a lot of doctors.

But too many people just see the average income, and default to class warfare.

No class warfare on my part (although it is understandable you might think that of me.) I am merely trying to point out how obvious it is that blaming “the corporate insurance industry” is way way way off base.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:41:30.518Z

Gaius:

Guvnah:

WuWei:

Averages are tricky.

Especially when it is used in isolation.

Startup costs for a practice can be like a whole mortgage. Ditto a quarter million in education debt once they graduate. Tack on 25-50K in annual malpractice insurance for a lot of doctors.

But too many people just see the average income, and default to class warfare.

No class warfare on my part (although it is understandable you might think that of me.) I am merely trying to point out how obvious it is that blaming “the corporate insurance industry” is way way way off base.

So is blaming doctor salaries, they account for around ten percent of medical costs, cut them in half and you save five percent, which inflation will erase in one year. Or less, definitely less given medical inflation rates.

zantax · 2022-11-23T15:43:31.774Z

A lot of it is what they are doing with my mother right now, giant gobs of government money being spent to give her a few more pain wracked months at end of life.

Guvnah · 2022-11-23T15:48:27.156Z

Gaius:

I am merely trying to point out how obvious it is that blaming “the corporate insurance industry” is way way way off base.

Yeah, I think that’s off base too.

DougBH · 2022-11-23T18:59:35.932Z

Ben_Natuf:

its a good thing we paid for their student loans so they don’t need more government money

Mississippi had a program that paid for doctors student loans for poor areas. This seems to have been discontinued.
I hope you are not talking about that $10,000 grant by Biden that has been blocked in court.

https://www.msfinancialaid.org/state-medical-education-forgivable-loan-med/

WorldWatcher · 2022-11-23T19:01:11.893Z

Just to point out.

After the 200+K debt to get through medical school, there is another 3-7 years of residency before becoming a full fledged independent doctor.

WW