NYC's Democrat Leadership will allow foreign nationals to vote in city elections

FreeAndClear · 2021-12-10T19:42:09.212Z

Yes i do. I even just expressed it. It was lawfully passed by duly elected representatives of New York City dwellers. The rest of my positions are outlined in detail in @WorldWatcher posts.

Well not all of them green card holders and those with right to work should be able to vote in local elections.

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T19:51:45.345Z

WorldWatcher:

Upon review of the New York State Constitution, balancing New York State Law (Sections 1-102 and Section 5-102, and the New York City Charter as already discussed. The requirements are not clear as to whether this new law will survive court challenge.

ARTICLE II of New York’s Constitution:

SUFFRAGE

[Qualifications of voters]

Section 1. "Every citizen shall be entitled to vote at every election for all
officers elected by the people and upon all questions submitted to the vote of the
people provided that such citizen is eighteen years of age or over and shall have
been a resident of this state, and of the county, city, or village for thirty days
next preceding an election".

Additionally, the STATE OF NEW YORK 2021 ELECTION LAW is crystal clear on this question!

§ 5–102. Qualifications of voters; age and residence

“No person shall be qualified to register for and vote at any election unless he is a citizen of the United States and is or will be, on the day of such election, eighteen years of age or over, and a resident of this state and of the county, city or village for a minimum of thirty days next preceding such election”.

As it turns out, once again you offer an opinion which conflicts with the crystal-clear text of the NYS Constitution, and likewise conflicts with the applicable statutory text.

JWK

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T20:11:00.469Z

WorldWatcher:

New York City Council passes bill giving voting rights to non-citizens - ABC7 New York

Just an update.

A more recent upday:

December 10, 2021

The Tablet – 10 Dec 21

Court Pushback Looms After NYC Council Extends Voting Rights To...

The New York City Council’s move to allow non-citizens to vote in municipal elections is setting the stage for a court battle over immigrants’ rights versus the privilege of citizenship.

Est. reading time: 4 minutes

"Jerry Kassar, chairman of the New York State Conservative Party, said his party plans to join forces with the state’s Republican Party to file a lawsuit to stop the new law from taking effect.

“We will be initiating a lawsuit under the firm belief that this is not allowed under the state constitution,” said Kassar, who stressed that the right to vote should remain a privilege afforded only to U.S. citizens."

A-freaken-men! As Joseph Story stated: “If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges."

And let us not forget the wisdom of Justice Douglas: "When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, is now their worst nightmare.

W_and_C · 2021-12-10T20:57:03.144Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

What you are talking about are processes under which one becomes qualified to vote in national elections that we use to elect a federal government. I do agree that that privilege ought to be reserved for citizens only.

A true supporter liberty should champion the idea of a decentralized federal government.

What I am talking about is a common-sense approach to allow foreign nationals to gain the privilege of voting in United States elections ___ federal, state or local.

And with regard to supporting and protecting the value of “liberty”, keep in mind the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and that most certainly includes common sense protections and requirements when extending the privilege of voting to foreigners, in local, state and federal elections.

New York City’s new rules allowing 800,000 foreign aliens to vote in city elections is not only thoughtless and unconstitutional, but ’Dangerous and Misguided’ as stated by one of New York City’s Council members, Rubén Díaz, from the Bronx.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

.

Fine. So you never answered my previous question - in a hypothetical situation where an entire municipality consists of foreign residents, they don’t get to have a government at all ?

Rolling Eyes Eye GIF - Tenor GIF Keyboard - Bring Personality To Your Conversations | Say more with Tenor

So, once again, instead of carrying on a productive dialogue and addressing my answer to you, you decide to deflect and pose a hypothetical situation which has nothing to do with NYC’s unconstitutional, dangerous and misguided rule allowing 800,000 noncitizens to vote in city elections.

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, has now GONE MAD
.

We are just going to have to disagree with on the NYC issue.

Disagree? Specify what our disagreements are with respect to NYC’s new rule allowing 800,000 foreign nationals voting in its elections.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

I think they should be allowed to vote in local elections. You think they should not be allowed to vote in local elections. That’s the disagreement.

Being more specific, you have no problem allowing foreign nationals, who have not gone through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our Oath of Allegiance, to vote in NYC’s local elections.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Correct. To be even more specific, i have no problem with them voting in any local elections at all; does not have to be NYC.

Samm · 2021-12-10T21:37:16.994Z

johnwk2:

Samm:

johnwk2:

Our naturalization process is designed to help foreigners become better qualified voters.

That explains why we natural born citizens are such poor voters. The vast majority of us could not pass the naturalization test.

What on earth does our naturalization process, which is designed to help foreigners become better qulified voters, have to do with natural born citizens who are “such poor voters”. And what do you mean by “such poor voters”?

You know what I mean by “poor” … Ignorant voters.

What do you mean by “better qualified”?

Samm · 2021-12-10T21:51:04.864Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

Never once did I say that foreign nationals should not go through naturalization process. But it’d illogical and impractical to have that as a prerequisite to be able to vote in local elections.

So now you are saying you are just fine with corrupting our local election process and do not support foreign nationals being required to go through our naturalization process, passing its civic test, and taking our “Oath of Allegiance”, before being allowed to vote in local elections.

First off, he did not say that, but more importantly, not requiring foreign nationals who are legally in the country and who reside in a community to be naturalized to be eligible to vote in local elections, no more corrupts the election process than natural born citizens not being required to do so. There is nothing about the naturalization process that relates to local issues.

By the way, requoting your walls of text is becoming a bit much. How about trimming it down (like I did here) before responding to the same person each time.

Samm · 2021-12-10T21:52:29.902Z

johnwk2:

What on earth does Assange or the others you mention have to do with the subject of the thread?

No need to shout John.

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T22:48:07.095Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

What you are talking about are processes under which one becomes qualified to vote in national elections that we use to elect a federal government. I do agree that that privilege ought to be reserved for citizens only.

A true supporter liberty should champion the idea of a decentralized federal government.

What I am talking about is a common-sense approach to allow foreign nationals to gain the privilege of voting in United States elections ___ federal, state or local.

And with regard to supporting and protecting the value of “liberty”, keep in mind the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and that most certainly includes common sense protections and requirements when extending the privilege of voting to foreigners, in local, state and federal elections.

New York City’s new rules allowing 800,000 foreign aliens to vote in city elections is not only thoughtless and unconstitutional, but ’Dangerous and Misguided’ as stated by one of New York City’s Council members, Rubén Díaz, from the Bronx.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

.

Fine. So you never answered my previous question - in a hypothetical situation where an entire municipality consists of foreign residents, they don’t get to have a government at all ?

Rolling Eyes Eye GIF - Tenor GIF Keyboard - Bring Personality To Your Conversations | Say more with Tenor

So, once again, instead of carrying on a productive dialogue and addressing my answer to you, you decide to deflect and pose a hypothetical situation which has nothing to do with NYC’s unconstitutional, dangerous and misguided rule allowing 800,000 noncitizens to vote in city elections.

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, has now GONE MAD
.

We are just going to have to disagree with on the NYC issue.

Disagree? Specify what our disagreements are with respect to NYC’s new rule allowing 800,000 foreign nationals voting in its elections.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

I think they should be allowed to vote in local elections. You think they should not be allowed to vote in local elections. That’s the disagreement.

Being more specific, you have no problem allowing foreign nationals, who have not gone through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our Oath of Allegiance, to vote in NYC’s local elections.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Correct. To be even more specific, i have no problem with them voting in any local elections at all; does not have to be NYC.

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

W_and_C · 2021-12-10T22:53:17.823Z

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T22:58:09.895Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

W_and_C · 2021-12-10T23:00:30.246Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T23:02:13.365Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

W_and_C · 2021-12-10T23:06:49.463Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

Interesting.

So despite the fact that they have not gone through naturalization process, taken our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE and passed a civics test, you’ll still take their tax money ?

Noted.

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T23:11:33.411Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

Interesting.

So despite the fact that they have not gone through naturalization process, taken our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE and passed a civics test, you’ll still take their tax money ?

Noted.

My goodness. Your responses indicate a lack of rational thought.

Do they get the benefit of government services? Should they not pay for those services?

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, is now their worst nightmare.

W_and_C · 2021-12-10T23:15:21.674Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

Interesting.

So despite the fact that they have not gone through naturalization process, taken our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE and passed a civics test, you’ll still take their tax money ?

Noted.

My goodness. Your responses indicate a lack of rational thought.

Do they get the benefit of government services? Should they not pay for those services?

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, is now their worst nightmare.

Yes to both of your questions. And now to add a third question - Should they not have a voice in how the local government administers such services ? They’re paying for it.

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T23:22:22.885Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

johnwk2:

I imagine most, if not the vast majority of foreigners who have earned their right to vote in our elections by going through our naturalization process, including passing its civics test and taking our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE would disagree with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

JWK

When acts of corruption infect an electoral process in one state “they transcend mere local concern and extend a contaminating influence into the national domain” ___ Justice DOUGLAS in United States v. Classic (1941)".

Nothing. Like I previously stated, we are just going to have to disagree on this issue.

So I am moving on and asking you a question related to this - if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

Interesting.

So despite the fact that they have not gone through naturalization process, taken our OATH OF ALLEGIANCE and passed a civics test, you’ll still take their tax money ?

Noted.

My goodness. Your responses indicate a lack of rational thought.

Do they get the benefit of government services? Should they not pay for those services?

JWK

The Democrat Party Leadership, once an advocate for hard working American citizens and their families, is now their worst nightmare.

Yes to both of your questions. And now to add a third question - Should they not have a voice in how the local government administers such services ? They’re paying for it.

No. Not until they go through our naturalization process.

That process is designed to help them assimilate ___ learn our customs, laws, language, history, etc, which makes for a more qualified immigrant voter.

JWK

At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished asked him directly, Well, Doctor, what have we got? A republic or a monarchy?' A republic, if you can keep it,’ responded Franklin.

Samm · 2021-12-10T23:27:48.422Z

johnwk2:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

Alright. So if you exclude them from voting, does that mean they should also be exempt from paying taxes ?

NO!

What does that question have to do with your willingness to cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States and giving the finger to all those foreign nationals who earned their privilege of voting by going through our naturalization process?

Allowing legal residents of a community to vote for local representation and other local issues does not cheapen the privilege if voting. It is the foundation if our democratic representative form of government to allow all legal residents to have a say in how they are governed.

Don’t you think that you have beat this horse enough? It’s beginning to turn into mush. Do you really think you will change anyone’s opinion by posting the same thing over and over and over?

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T23:39:32.345Z

Samm:

Allowing legal residents of a community to vote for local representation and other local issues does not cheapen the privilege if voting.

We are talking about foreign nationals. And, allowing foreign nationals to vote in our elections, federal, State or local, without having gone through our naturalization process like others have, does in fact cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States, not to mention it is a “dangerous and misguided” idea as stated by Rubén Díaz, a New York City councilman from the Bronx and a lifelong Democrat LINK

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

johnwk2 · 2021-12-10T23:43:23.076Z

Samm:

Don’t you think that you have beat this horse enough? It’s beginning to turn into mush. Do you really think you will change anyone’s opinion by posting the same thing over and over and over?

Funny you should say that when you find it irresistible to beat that same horse.

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Samm · 2021-12-10T23:54:14.262Z

johnwk2:

Samm:

Allowing legal residents of a community to vote for local representation and other local issues does not cheapen the privilege if voting.

We are talking about foreign nationals. And, allowing foreign nationals to vote in our elections, federal, State or local, without having gone through our naturalization process like others have, does in fact cheapen the privilege of voting in the United States, not to mention it is a “dangerous and misguided” idea as stated by Rubén Díaz, a New York City councilman from the Bronx and a lifelong Democrat LINK

As I said, saying the same thing over and over and over will not change anyone’s mind. If the sheer weight of opinions could change minds, you would have changed yours.