NYC's Democrat Leadership will allow foreign nationals to vote in city elections

W_and_C · 2021-12-22T04:09:41.855Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

Supreme_War_Pig:

johnwk2:

Corrupting a local election by allowing foreigners to vote in a local election, which dilutes the vote of American citizens living in that community, most certainly affects American citizens living within that local community as well as affecting citizens living in surrounding communities.

This is where you lose me, for I am not convinced that voting in local elections corrupts anything.

The residents of the city all have common cause in their local governance. Moreover, they share common cause in initiatives and propositions.

For example, sanctuary cities. Do cities vote to label themselves as such? Or do they elect representatives to enact the policy for them? Either way, can you provide an instance for the non citizen vote alone made the difference? And why is there an assumption that the non citizens are immune to standard electioneering and politicking? Finally, why is your default assumption that the non citizens will vote to harm the city and their fellow citizens?

Maybe legal non citizens would be more likely to vote against sanctuary city policies ? They came here legally, why not apply same standards to others who want to immigrate ?

Okay, but why? Why is the assumption that legal non citizens will 1)-vote as a monolith, and 2)-not have the same interests as their fellow residents?

I haven’t made a single assumption. I said maybe they’ll vote for a more conservative immigration policy and I gave a reason as to why.

Samm · 2021-12-22T04:17:53.893Z

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

The real question here is, why do you have such a problem with some legal residents of a community being prohibited from voting on things that affect their lives, their livelihood, and their taxes?

Because, by residing legally but not taking citizenship, they de facto consent to living in a country run by others and trusting those others to keep the country a place they want to live in. And if the country becomes unfavorable for their continued residence in it, they can always go home to the country of their citizenship.

That’s an excuse to deny them the vote in local elections, not a reason. Local elections are about local issues … issues that impact all legal residents of that locality. Being a citizen of the country or not has no bearing on local governance.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2021-12-22T05:09:08.984Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

haven’t made a single assumption. I said maybe they’ll vote for a more conservative immigration policy and I gave a reason as to why.

Oh, that wasn’t meant for you specifically, just asking the question. Specifically of the OP, who thinks their votes are ‘corrupting’, and his attitude is generally negative.

W_and_C · 2021-12-22T05:28:05.162Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

haven’t made a single assumption. I said maybe they’ll vote for a more conservative immigration policy and I gave a reason as to why.

Oh, that wasn’t meant for you specifically, just asking the question. Specifically of the OP who thinks their votes are ‘corrupting’, and his attitude is generally negative.

Ah gotcha

Paul_Thomson · 2021-12-22T09:08:43.543Z

Samm:

That’s an excuse to deny them the vote in local elections, not a reason. Local elections are about local issues … issues that impact all legal residents of that locality. Being a citizen of the country or not has no bearing on local governance.

By your argument, since illegals are impacted by local policy decisions, they should also vote.

johnwk2 · 2021-12-22T11:15:10.990Z

Samm:

Maybe I didn’t use the words you wanted to read … or maybe not enough of them to suit your “wall of text” style … but I most certainly have answered your every question.

No. You have not.

You asserted that allowing foreigners “. . . to vote on local issues poses no threat to the nation.” Why did you make that up?

The truth is, those who vote in local elections, and influence local public policies, like the creation of sanctuary cities, has been responsible for the deaths of American citizens and other major crimes in both sanctuary cities and surrounding areas.

Allowing foreigners to vote in a local election, which dilutes the vote of American citizens living in that community, most certainly affects American citizens living within that local community as well as affecting citizens living in surrounding communities.

Stop making stuff up!

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

Samm · 2021-12-22T22:22:59.469Z

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

That’s an excuse to deny them the vote in local elections, not a reason. Local elections are about local issues … issues that impact all legal residents of that locality. Being a citizen of the country or not has no bearing on local governance.

By your argument, since illegals are impacted by local policy decisions, they should also vote.

Not even remotely. Understanding the meaning of the word “legal” is key to understanding my position.

Samm · 2021-12-22T22:23:43.062Z

johnwk2:

You asserted that allowing foreigners “. . . to vote on local issues poses no threat to the nation.” Why did you make that up?

Because it’s true.

Samm · 2021-12-22T22:25:08.845Z

johnwk2:

The truth is, those who vote in local elections, and influence local public policies, like the creation of sanctuary cities, has been responsible for the deaths of American citizens and other major crimes in both sanctuary cities and surrounding areas.

Allowing foreigners to vote in a local election, which dilutes the vote of American citizens living in that community, most certainly affects American citizens living within that local community as well as affecting citizens living in surrounding communities.

Stop making stuff up!

Do you mean stuff like what you just posted here?

Paul_Thomson · 2021-12-23T02:33:06.595Z

[quote=“Samm, post:482, topic:240842, full:true”]

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

That’s an excuse to deny them the vote in local elections, not a reason. Local elections are about local issues … issues that impact all legal residents of that locality. Being a citizen of the country or not has no bearing on local governance.
[/quote]

By your argument, since illegals are impacted by local policy decisions, they should also vote.

Not even remotely. Understanding the meaning of the word “legal” is key to understanding my position.

You argument lacks logic. If the reason the class “legal residents” deserve a vote is that local issues affect them, and local issues also affect the class “illegal residents”, then by logic illegal residents deserves a vote.

You need a different reason for legals voting, one that excludes illegals.

Samm · 2021-12-23T03:08:47.554Z

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-12-23T03:29:23.401Z

Samm:

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

That’s arbitrary, not logical.

Arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
“an arbitrary decision”

W_and_C · 2021-12-23T04:05:19.898Z

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

That’s arbitrary, not logical.

Arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
“an arbitrary decision”

For me, I would not allow illegal aliens to vote as a penance for breaking the law.

Samm · 2021-12-23T04:43:59.099Z

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

That’s arbitrary, not logical.

Arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
“an arbitrary decision”

It’s not arbitrary at all. Legal residency is precisely defined.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-12-23T04:56:53.361Z

Paul_Thomson:

Samm:

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

That’s arbitrary, not logical.

Arbitrary - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
“an arbitrary decision”

The argument “illegals should not be allowed to vote because they are illegals” is circular and a logical fallacy.

Samm · 2021-12-23T05:37:26.249Z

That’s ridiculous.

Call_me_Ishmael · 2021-12-23T05:42:09.678Z

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

Right, so should they be allowed to vote in local elections ?

I don’t believe anyone here has seriously suggested that illegal ones should.

Yes and no. They crossed the border as illegals . They were captured by border patrol and given a court date to appear before an immigration judge. So now they are “legal”.

It’s just more of the progressive lexicon tricks. They changed the meaning of legal so that illegals can vote in those elections.

CIS.org

Biden Dismantles the Ban on Hiring Illegal Immigrants

National Review, October 15, 2021

johnwk2 · 2021-12-23T14:11:59.357Z

Samm:

johnwk2:

The truth is, those who vote in local elections, and influence local public policies, like the creation of sanctuary cities, has been responsible for the deaths of American citizens and other major crimes in both sanctuary cities and surrounding areas.

Allowing foreigners to vote in a local election, which dilutes the vote of American citizens living in that community, most certainly affects American citizens living within that local community as well as affecting citizens living in surrounding communities.

Stop making stuff up!

Do you mean stuff like what you just posted here?

What I posted above, and you quoted are factual statements. I noticed you didn’t show anything in my above quote to false, and you can’t because what I posted is the truth.

JWK

johnwk2 · 2021-12-23T14:19:21.917Z

Samm:

Wrong. The distinction between legal alien and illegal alien are perfectly clear. That’s all you need when coupling it with resident.

And, a legal alien and illegal alien are both foreign nationals, not citizens of the United States.

Why are you so eager to allow foreign nationals to vote in our elections?

Why are you so eager to give a slap in the face to the tens of millions of naturalized citizens in the United States, who went through our naturalization process in order to earn the right to vote, by now allowing foreigners to vote without going through that process and earning the right to vote?

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story

johnwk2 · 2021-12-24T13:49:52.286Z

Call_me_Ishmael:

Here's to feeling good all the time. :

Right, so should they be allowed to vote in local elections ?

I don’t believe anyone here has seriously suggested that illegal ones should.

Yes and no. They crossed the border as illegals . They were captured by border patrol and given a court date to appear before an immigration judge. So now they are “legal”.

It’s just more of the progressive lexicon tricks. They changed the meaning of legal so that illegals can vote in those elections.

The bottom line is, allowing 800,000 foreign nationals to vote in NYC, most certainly can allow foreigners to dominate NYC’s elections.

Keep in mind in NYC’s last election, Eric Adams won the Mayoral election with a total of 754,000 votes.

Now tell me that allowing 800,000 foreign nationals to vote in local elections will not significantly dilute the vote of American citizens.

Why are so many so eager to allow foreign nationals to vote in our elections?

JWK

“If aliens might be admitted indiscriminately to enjoy all the rights of citizens at the will of a single state, the Union might itself be endangered by an influx of foreigners, hostile to its institutions, ignorant of its powers, and incapable of a due estimate of its privileges." - Joseph Story