New study shows natural immunity is vastly better than that from vaccines

[GWH]

And so far, the Pfizer vaccine has shown to provide protection from contracting the delta variant at around 45% efficacy?

[Jezcoe]

@johnwk2

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down.

Really?

We aren’t really doing that now… a year and a half later and how is it working out?

We even have vaccines and fairly effective treatments and there is still a mounting death toll.

[johnwk2]

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down.

Really?

We aren’t really doing that now… a year and a half later and how is it working out?

We even have vaccines and fairly effective treatments and there is still a mounting death toll.

How sweet of you to edit what I posted and then engage in another stupid debating trick.

What I actually wrote was:

Had we followed the above mentioned course of action from the beginning,

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down. But here we are today, so, let us adopt A logical course of action!

JWK

[gooddad409]

@conan

Also the question is mRNA better then traditional vaccine? That question really hasn’t been answered IMO.

Another question is the mRNA vaccine as safe as the traditional vaccine?

The answer seems to be clearly no though it is safer than the covid for sure.

[SottoVoce]

@GWH

And so far, the Pfizer vaccine has shown to provide protection from contracting the delta variant at around 45% efficacy?

Depends on who and how you ask it. A UK study showed it to be 88% effective in preventing symptomatic disease after two doses. Prevention of symptomatic disease is the efficacy used when Pfizer was given its EUA (95%). This is the apples to apples comparison when comparing the original stated efficacy of the vaccine to its efficacy against the delta variant - 95% down to 88% with delta. Efficacy against asymptomatic and symptomatic is a newer definition which seems to have taken hold.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

If you switch to other definitions of efficacy it becomes more complicated, especially when looking at prevention of asymptomatic infection. Not every location tracks breakthrough infections. The CDC stopped tracking breakthrough infections except in situations in which they were hospitalized or died. The best we can do here is look at places which still do track all breakthrough infections, like New York.

New COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations Among...

Weekly estimated VE against new laboratory-confirmed infection during May 3–July 25 for all age groups generally declined, ranging from 90.6% to 74.6% for persons aged 18–49 years, 93.5% to 83.4% for persons aged 50–64 years, and 92.3% to 88.9% for persons aged ≥65 years. During May 3–July 25, the overall, age-adjusted VE against infection declined from 91.7% to 79.8%

The overall vaccine efficacy in preventing any form of laboratory confirmed COVID fell from 91.7% to 79.8% when the delta variant emerged.

When looking at higher risk populations, such as nursing home residents, efficacy at preventing any form of COVID went from 74.2% pre-delta to 52.4% after delta.

Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines in...

So…when looking at the prevention of symptomatic COVID, the vaccine remains very effective with the delta variant. When looking at prevention of any COVID, it remains effective in the general population. When looking at prevention of any COVID in high risk populations it fell quite a bit. That is what has led to the recommendation of a booster/third dose for that group.

[Jezcoe]

@johnwk2

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down.

Really?

We aren’t really doing that now… a year and a half later and how is it working out?

We even have vaccines and fairly effective treatments and there is still a mounting death toll.

How sweet of you to edit what I posted and then engage in another stupid debating trick.

What I actually wrote was:

Had we followed the above mentioned course of action from the beginning,

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down. But here we are today, so, let us adopt A logical course of action!

JWK

There is no indication that it would have been any better seeing as how things are going right now with vaccines and effective treatment. Imagine a year and a half ago before any of that existed.

It would have been seriously bad.

[Ben_Natuf]

pssst… vaccine immunity falls over time too

[johnwk2]

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down.

Really?

We aren’t really doing that now… a year and a half later and how is it working out?

We even have vaccines and fairly effective treatments and there is still a mounting death toll.

How sweet of you to edit what I posted and then engage in another stupid debating trick.

What I actually wrote was:

Had we followed the above mentioned course of action from the beginning,

the likely hood of “half a million Americans dead” would probably never have come to pass, and our entire way of life would not have been turned upside down. But here we are today, so, let us adopt A logical course of action!

JWK

There is no indication that it would have been any better seeing as how things are going right now with vaccines and effective treatment.

That is utter nonsense. The fact is, as one of the treatments, the antibody treatment has only, within the past three weeks, been turned to across the country as a major treatment, and is proving to be a great success.

Additionally, allowing natural immunity, Mother Nature’s way of dealing with the situation, was greatly hampered by nitwitted lockdowns.

As I have suggested in A logical course of action!, your love affair with the vaccine, should be limited to the “high risk” group, and the antibody treatment, and other proven treatments, should immediately take a front seat, and Mother Nature’s natural immunity should not be interfered with by nitwit based policies, so herd immunity can be reached and we can return to our normal lives.

One thing for sure, NYC’s one size fits all __ No Vax, No Service __ is not only absurd, but ignores the science, and actually encourages the fully vaccinated, who are symptom free but infected with the virus, to go out and enjoy public accommodations and spread the virus, while those who have natural immunity and are virus free are discriminated against by government and prohibited from going about their daily activities.

Let us start using some common sense and stop obscuring the issue.

JWK

President Biden is giving aid and comfort to tens of thousands of Covid infected foreigners, who are invading our southern border

[Conservative_frk]

Guess what , my natural immunity has worked 100% . I had Covid over a year ago. I actually have been exposed again and I amazingly did not get Covid again.
Studies show it is very rare to have a reinfection.
They have no idea why some people who have been vax still get Covid. Well, I will say a friend of mine, who is a mammography tech, had the vax in April and has ZERO antibodies now. Hmmmm? That could be why.

I don’t care if you want to get the vax you are free to do so. I do not want to and I should be able to decide that for myself.

If I get it again, I tell you what, I won’t seek medical care so I won’t cost any insurance companies more money, I’ll stay in my house so I won’t give it to anyone. I won’t go to the hospital so I won’t take up a bed or any resources. How about that? Will any of you vax people agree to that?

[johnwk2]

@Conservative_frk

Guess what , my natural immunity has worked 100% . I had Covid over a year ago. I actually have been exposed again and I amazingly did not get Covid again.
Studies show it is very rare to have a reinfection.
They have no idea why some people who have been vax still get Covid. Well, I will say a friend of mine, who is a mammography tech, had the vax in April and has ZERO antibodies now. Hmmmm? That could be why.

I don’t care if you want to get the vax you are free to do so. I do not want to and I should be able to decide that for myself.

If I get it again, I tell you what, I won’t seek medical care so I won’t cost any insurance companies more money, I’ll stay in my house so I won’t give it to anyone. I won’t go to the hospital so I won’t take up a bed or any resources. How about that? Will any of you vax people agree to that?

Thank you for your post We need more people who have had the covid virus, kicked its butt, and now have the benefit of Mother Nature’s natural immunity to tell their story. Of course, the sky is falling, hysterical vaccine jabbers, want to dictate your medical decisions and compel you to get the jab, regardless if you are covid free and not transmitting the virus, while those fully vaccinated are in fact transmitting the virus. This nitwitted mob is very much on board with government’s absurd and reckless one size fits all crap, an example being NYC’s __ No Vax, No Service __ which is not only absurd, but ignores the science, and actually encourages the fully vaccinated, who are symptom free but infected and spreading the virus, to go out and enjoy public accommodations and spread the virus, while those who have natural immunity and are virus free, are discriminated against by government and prohibited from going about their daily activities.

This is not only freaken insane, it is a direct assault on the inalienable rights of mankind which our system of government has a priority to protect.

And then, to make matters worse, we have tyrannical judges and Justices who, in recent years, ignore the rule of law and impose their personal whims and facies as the rule of law, and do so to advance what they believe is social justice, fairness, and reasonableness . . . totally ignoring what our constitutions, state and federal, were designed to protect.

We are looking more and more like Cuba, China, and Venezuela as each day passes.

JWK

“The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice.” – Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

[toreyj01]

@Ben_Natuf

i agree with getting vaccinated, but that is just collins pushing it, even though true, its propaganda to push vaccines. why? not all vaccines are equal, with only 40% efficacy against delta, pfizer does not meet those levels and at 75% niether does moderna. he’s using figures for the alpha variant, does anyone even get that anymore?

Well, freshly vaccinated Pfizer and Moderna patients have much higher immunity to Delta, that 40ish percent is for folks who had it 8 months ago. They just need a booster. But…even at 44% you still have a 96% chance of staying out of hospital and a 99% chance, if you do catch it, of not dying. There is a clear advantage between being unvaccinated and vaccinated if you have never had COVID, and that is 80% of our population.

For the 40 million Americans who had COVID, one shot of mRNA vaccine will provide a huge boost to immunity, it makes sense to get it.

[toreyj01]

@GWH

@SottoVoce

@GWH

@SottoVoce

Is it “better” to have COVID than to get the vaccine with or without boosters?

We have no idea the long term effects of Covid on those infected or vaccinated and then infected, period.

There is plenty of data on the short term effects of COVID. What’s the proposal? Wait a couple generations before deciding if vaccinations are OK?

We waited a couple of generations to find out Zantac, a simple antacid medicine, was causing cancer. What harm could a mRNA vaccine do long term? Especially if it’s unnecessary in those who’ve already been infected with Covid, fought it off, and are just as if not better protected against variants.

Zantac is pervasively taken, it is a cumulative effect.

mRNA vaccines are gone in 2 weeks, completely. No traces in your body at all.

[toreyj01]

@SottoVoce

@GWH

What exactly happens with other coronaviruses?

You keep getting them over and over. They are a part of the “common cold.” A generic coronavirus vaccine is not reasonable. In this case we aren’t trying to vaccinate against all coronaviruses, just SARS-COV-2 and related strains.

They are actually exploring that at the moment, a generic coronavirus vaccine. It is fairly interesting.

[johnwk2]

I’m interested to know how the above few posts relate to natural immunity vs the covid vaccine jab.

JWK

[Jezcoe]

@johnwk2

I’m interested to know how the above few posts relate to natural immunity vs the covid vaccine jab.

JWK

Which study would that be?

[johnwk2]

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

I’m interested to know how the above few posts relate to natural immunity vs the covid vaccine jab.

JWK

Which study would that be?

Data recently released from Israel’s Health Ministry regarding the country’s latest wave of covid infections starting this past may.

See (Report) Israel: Vaccination provides ‘far less’ protection than previous Covid infection

DATED: AUGUST 8, 2021

• Israelis who were vaccinated were reportedly 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection

The article goes on to report:

7,700 new cases of Covid during wave starting in May

3,000+ (40%) were reported in people who had been vaccinated

72 (<1%) were reported in people previously infected

According to reports, 835,792 Israelis are known to have recovered from Covid. So 72 reinfections amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

JWK

Let us never forget. There is now both domestic and foreign blood on the hands of all those who voted for the Biden/Harris ticket.

[Jezcoe]

@johnwk2

@Jezcoe

@johnwk2

I’m interested to know how the above few posts relate to natural immunity vs the covid vaccine jab.

JWK

Which study would that be?

Data recently released from Israel’s Health Ministry regarding the country’s latest wave of covid infections starting this past may.

See (Report) Israel: Vaccination provides ‘far less’ protection than previous Covid infection

DATED: AUGUST 8, 2021

• Israelis who were vaccinated were reportedly 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection

The article goes on to report:

7,700 new cases of Covid during wave starting in May

3,000+ (40%) were reported in people who had been vaccinated

72 (<1%) were reported in people previously infected

According to reports, 835,792 Israelis are known to have recovered from Covid. So 72 reinfections amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

JWK

Let us never forget. There is now both domestic and foreign blood on the hands of all those who voted for the Biden/Harris ticket.

Wait wait wait wait.

So now we are moving on from that study?

Okay then.

Let us look at this new claim.

In the latest wave… The previously infected were 0.0086% of those who got Delta.

The vaccinated were 0.0578% of the population who were infected.

What does that say about the effectiveness of the vaccine?

[Ben_Natuf]

@toreyj01

Well, freshly vaccinated Pfizer and Moderna patients have much higher immunity to Delta, that 40ish percent is for folks who had it 8 months ago.

not true. the efficacy for pfizer is under 50% for delta, around 75% for moderna. has nothing to do with 8 months.

after 8 months (for the most part) none of the vaccines have any efficacy worth noting, the antibodies are gone.

i do agree being vaccinated is better even for the 55% or so for whom the pfizer vaccine does not work to prevent delta. not dying or becoming severly ill is a good side effect.

[Axxowiz]

There seems to be few studies that I have ran across that show the percentage of people who got infected by the original covid like you and me did was reinfected with the delta variant.

I would like to see more studies and comparisons on those who previously already got covid what are their chances to get the delta variant compared to those who never been infected and vaccinated. I keep reading about breakthrough cases but not on those who have been infected and have natural immunity to the virus.

[johnwk2]

@Axxowiz

There seems to be few studies that I have ran across that show the percentage of people who got infected by the original covid like you and me did was reinfected with the delta variant.

I would like to see more studies and comparisons on those who previously already got covid what are their chances to get the delta variant compared to those who never been infected and vaccinated. I keep reading about breakthrough cases but not on those who have been infected and have natural immunity to the virus.

See (Report) Israel: Vaccination provides ‘far less’ protection than previous Covid infection

JWK

None dare call the Democrat Party Leadership’s arming of the Taliban, (our enemy), with United States’ military equipment, as TREASON. Why?