Musk's peace plan

[JayJay]

@Orygun

Good read for y’all:

Is Vladimir Putin Another Adolf Hitler?

History never completely tracks.

I will say though that Czechoslovakia then is Ukraine now.

In fact, Czechoslovakia was better than Ukraine.

It was a fully functioning democracy…the only one in Eastern Europe. Ukraine is not yet that.

If the West had not sold it out in Munich, Czechoslovakia alone, behind its border fortifications, was more than a match for the Germans.

Germany in 1938 was a far cry from Germany in 1940.

It didn’t have the men and equipment to burst through the fortifications.

It’s Air Force was tactical, not strategic, and not strong enough to bombard the fortifications. Its bombers didn’t have the range to make London or Paris (remember when the Germans bombed London, they had captured France).

The Czechs would have held out behind their fortifications and possibly beaten the Germans back. For sure they would have held out long enough for the creaky French and Brits to mobilize.

Oh, and Russia would have come in on the side of Czechoslovakia.

[WuWei]

Ok, if “we” say so.

[Guntsu]

@WuWei

So starve

Russia itself isn’t even using this flimsy pretext for their invasion.

No one was starving, Russia is taking what does not belong to them Putin has made clear his reasons …dreams of restoration.

[Guntsu]

@margaretms2

If the GOP takes the House (with or without the Senate), how soon do they try to bail on Ukraine?

My prediction is there will be a lot of posturing but little change in direction…I could be wrong

[Orygun]

Good news, looks like Elon’s got a new job.

[margaretms2]

@Guntsu

@WuWei

So starve

Russia itself isn’t even using this flimsy pretext for their invasion.

No one was starving, Russia is taking what does not belong to them Putin has made clear his reasons …dreams of restoration.

Like, defending Putin’s aggression is weird, even when its based on the actual propaganda from Russia. But it’s next-level to defend him by inventing a justification.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

Of course it’s not ruled out. Nevertheless, Biden would not order a first strike.

[Ben_Natuf]

they don’t seem to want to be

[Oryx]

One way or another, we need a diplomatic solution ASAP. The Biden administration is too focused on sending weapons to Ukraine and not focused enough on diplomacy.

[Ben_Natuf]

diplomacy to do what? offer a chunk of ukraine to russia? submit to nuclear blackmail?

[WuWei]

Not detonate nuclear weapons?

[JayJay]

Some inducement has to be given to Putin to withdraw that doesn’t look like an utter defeat for him.

Unfortunately, the last two times a Russian leader backed down, it didn’t end well for them.

Khrushchev was put out to pasture, and Gorbachev had first an attempt on his status and his life, and then the USSR dissolved.

[JayJay]

@WuWei

Not detonate nuclear weapons?

Unless and until we get rid of them, nuclear weapons will be used again someday.

It’s human nature.

[Bill.in.PA]

What will it take for the White House to walk back the hysterics about nuclear Armageddon?

It is pretty bad when CNN is questioning what is going on at the White House:

CNN's Lemon Reacts to Biden 'Armageddon' Warning by Asking if WH Has Walked...

[JayJay]

@Bill.in.PA

What will it take for the White House to walk back the hysterics about nuclear Armageddon?

It is pretty bad when CNN is questioning what is going on at the White House:
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2022/10/07/cnns-lemon-reacts-to-biden-armageddon-warning-by-asking-if-wh-has-walked-it-back-given-past-history-of-walkbacks/

It was already walked back. You’re behind the times.

But the move to de-escalate is still Putin’s. He’s the one making threats. He’s the one that needs to withdraw his forces.

At some point you really need to put some responsibility on the aggressor, Bill.

[Oryx]

@Ben_Natuf

diplomacy to do what? offer a chunk of ukraine to russia? submit to nuclear blackmail?

I don’t think Ukraine and the west should just cave to Russia’s demands, no, but we should be more aggressive about finding ways to end the fighting. The longer it goes on, the more likely something tragic and irreversible will happen.

[JayJay]

@Oryx

@Ben_Natuf

diplomacy to do what? offer a chunk of ukraine to russia? submit to nuclear blackmail?

I don’t think Ukraine and the west should just cave to Russia’s demands, no, but we should be more aggressive about finding ways to end the fighting. The longer it goes on, the more likely something tragic and irreversible will happen.

Musk’s plan would have been a good starting point if it started with Russia withdrawing its forces first.

Carrot and stick approach. Cease fire, followed by Russian a withdrawal, followed by comprehensive talks to address their “security concerns”.

Unfortunately, that Russia “annexed” the lands it currently partially occupies complicates this.

But a way needs to be provided for Putin to withdraw without his head rolling.

[WuWei]

Only ever been one. And it wasn’t the “bad guys”.

[Orygun]

@JayJay

Musk’s plan would have been a good starting point if it started with Russia withdrawing its forces first.

Come on it really wouldn’t. People living in these regions have mostly either fled, been taken hostage or been murdered by Russia. What are left are the poor, infirm, and elderly. There is no way to have a legal vote after all this mess, even with UN overseers. And Musks “plan” still doesnt get into security agreements for Ukraine after Russia has been pushed out. Don’t get me started on Crimea.

[Orygun]

@JayJay

But a way needs to be provided for Putin to withdraw without his head rolling.

Its a seemingly impossible endeavor. Russia would have to agree to taking only a fraction of land from Ukraine while agreeing to a NATO like security agreement that would protect Ukraine from all further attacks.

I have never heard Putin be open to anything remotely like that.