Google fast and furious.
Yeah. A a program to track guns that sold 2000 guns. What’s your point?
My point is, government complicity with illegal export of guns to Mexico is not unknown. Furthermore, the bulk of those guns of “US origin” were illegally possessed before they were smuggled into Mexico. It’s not like licensed US gun dealers are shipping guns across the border illegally.
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His point was that there are people in this country who want to do us what a generation of tyrants did to Mexico. Strip them of their constitutional right to bear arms.
The Mexican constitution is actually a pretty solid constitution. The issue is that their corrupt governments, one after the other, have basically wiped their asses with it.
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Not saying our gun dealers were legally shipping them to Mexico. But we are the source for Mexico’s guns. That seems pretty obvious. Not sure what you mean by “illegally posessed”. They’re illegally posessed once they’re smuggled across the border, but I imagine they were mostly legally purchased in the US. Fast and Furious’ specific gun tracking operation seems irrelevant.
Again … what do you mean by “we”?
Illegally possessed is self descriptive. It means the person who has them either did not acquire them legally or they cannot legally poses them … or both. And that is prior to illegally smuggling them into Mexico.
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America as a nation, through it’s gun industry is the supplier of Mexico’s guns. Illegally. Guns bought legally here then change hands and are smuggled into Mexico. It’s a business. Pretty straight forward.
The gun industry is not illegally supplying guns to Mexico. And there is no evidence that legally purchased guns are being smuggled to Mexico without first going through an illegal transfer in any significant numbers. MOST are obtained by the smugglers through illegal means.
None of this conversation has anything to do with the OP. The point is, current Mexican law regarding private gun ownership closely resembles the desires of libs in the US. Discuss that.
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I typed that wrong. Guns are bought here legally. Then illegal transfers happen and they end up in Mexico. I do not think gun dealers are illegally shipping guns to Mexico. We are the source. And then, after some stuff, illegally they are sent to Mexico. Sorry for the bad typing.
“We” are not the source … criminals are the source.
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Fair enough. Absolutely criminals are directly responsible for all of this. Just to be clear though, you do not think of Colombia or Mexico or other places in Central and South America as sources of drugs that come into America. And that’s fine. I’m just trying to figure out your terminology.
So now, how does that relate to the OP?
The criminals who export illegal possessed guns to Mexico are the same element as those who belong to the Cartels that control much of Mexico. Enacting gun laws similar to Mexico’s would likely result in organized and gang crime here bearing a similar resemblance.
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So we keep selling and selling and selling and selling guns(with very bad registration and resale laws) and they keep ending up in Mexico. But improving registration and resale laws here would make us Mexico?
The point is not how criminals get guns. The point is:
- Authoritarianism can effectively destroy a right through regulatory bureaucracy.
- When only wolves have teeth and the herding dogs won’t protect them, the sheep get slaughtered.
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That’s a couple of times you’ve mentioned “registration”.
No.
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So no registration of firearms at all. Just to be clear. You do not agree with any kind of registration of firearms.
Absolutely correct.
Background checks either.
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Well luckily the nation can debate that. It is a fact that polls show Americans in favor of increased gun control laws. There are places here we can work. This one doesn’t mention registration, although I think 8 states require it. But a starting point.
Actually it can’t. You don’t get a vote on my rights.
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Well indirectly and directly I can. We could always vote on an amendment to the constitution. Or local laws that require registration. And I can vote for legislators and presidents who can vote for and approve judges who can rule that yes a registration of firearms does not violate the constitution. I vote on your rights. We all vote on everyone’s rights.
