Mentally Ill Presidents

I thought this was an interesting article. I didnt realize how many presidents were plagued not only by depression, but suicidal impulses, bipolar and sociopathic qualities.

I had no idea that Adams, Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt were bipolar. Anyways- just an interesting read.

“Thought to have been”

Tsk, tsk.

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Yeah, not a lot of faith in retroactive historical psychiatric diagnosis.

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Generally I agree- but there is a fair bit of evidence for a lot of mental health issues even without diagnoses.

Analyst’s Cardinal Sin

I thought it was an interesting read.

Not sure what to call Richard Nixon, though, using sleeping pills and alcohol, thus invalidating his depression treatment.

Yeah- dude got really weird and paranoid at the end. I think they were traits he already had- amplified by the stress of watergate plus - as you say- drugs and alcohol.

I’m not 100% sold on historical psychology, although I find it very interesting.

If I had to pick a president that I felt had some pretty bad demons, it would have to be Nixon. He was extraordinarily paranoid. Especially during Watergate, although I’m sure most presidents would have been emotionally distraught during such a controversy. But even before then he just seems like he had some issues that he wasn’t really dealing with effectively.

When it comes to 1st ladies though, that’s easy. Mary Todd Lincoln. After the death of their second son she spiraled down hill. Especially during the Civil War and the natural pressures that put on the Lincoln family. She was a semi functioning train wreck.

Yeah Mary Todd had dealt with her husband managing a civil war, lost three of her sons and watched her husband get murdered. She understandably got insanely depressed and her remaining son had her sent to an asylum. What a rough life.

…and does anyone wonder what psychological historians looking back will say about Trump? :sunglasses: :tumbler_glass:

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Not in the least.

WW

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Borderline personality disorder, anyone?

Having once been acquainted with a county mental health worker, the borderlines under her care were very contradictory. They had an intense fear of abandonment.

As an example, “I hate you!” Upon hated individual’s retreat, “Please don’t leave me!”

While not in a position to diagnose anyone, as pointed out by the article, those afflicted may be substance abusers. And taking sleeping pills and alcohol while on anti depressant therapy is rather contradictory.

Maybe the late Mr. Nixon was a borderline.

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As for examples like Franklin Pierce and Abraham Lincoln, were they outside of depression mentally ill at all?

Though child deaths were more common in the 19th Century, wouldn’t they drain just about anyone emotionally? Then add to it being chosen for the highest level of leadership?

Here’s a little more on mental health associated with an illness thought to afflict Abraham Lincoln:

Meaningless.

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In the case of Lincoln- who wouldnt be crazy depressed from overseeing a civil war and losing three sons.

There’s a model known as the diathesis-stress model. For those who are susceptible to mental illness, only a small stressor can cause a huge episode. For those who are minimally susceptible to mental illness, it takes quite a bit of stress and trauma to push one over the edge. The reality is that we all can lose it- it just takes enough stress. For some it takes less- for others more.

BPD does have impulsivity, for self-soothing behavior; however, there are also other symptoms such as unstable mood/emotions and a fear of abandonment.

Personality disorders are usually caused by different combinations of abuse and neglect (because they are maladaptive methods of coping), and this plays into the pervasiveness that is characteristic of such a disorder- meaning if you have one, it permeates into every aspect of your life and it is relatively constant over a long period of time. Symptoms can usually start as early as adolescence or even from age 5 since that is when the personality starts to develop.

To be diagnosed with one is a big deal for many people. However, I think that personality disorders are becoming more and more common, especially as we’re seeing narcissism rise. It is my personal belief that cluster B disorders are rising. And I feel that left-leaning psychiatric professionals don’t want to acknowledge this since it seems to be a cultural movement, as then nothing really deviates- for something to be a disorder, it has to deviate from the individual’s culture, as well as be distressful and dysfunctional.

This is also one of the reasons why so many people with personality disorders go undiagnosed because it isn’t distressful to them, but to everyone around them. People with AvPD, we want relationships and we suffer a lot, so it is distressful- but we think that avoiding people is the lesser of two evils, so we choose that, because being with peole has been worse. But say, someone with NPD, they won’t come into therapy for NPD. It is the very nature of someone with pathological narcissism to think that they aren’t the problem. They usually come in for depression instead, or after a court-order or a spouse or someone close has threatened to leave if they don’t get help for their issues.

These are just my observations and what I’ve learned from mental health professionals; I have never professionally treated someone with a personality disorder.

I feel as though some movements have spun out of control and are the driving force. That, and increased stress, dysfunctional parenting methods, and “fleas” from perhaps being around someone with a personality disorder. I have noticed a decrease in the amount of empathy people have for other people. They are quick to assume, yet they give themselves the benefit of the doubt. Although I think everyone is guilty of this, to some extent.

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NPD also involves the development of a “false self.” They’ve become so ashamed of who they are, they have built a false self to get by, self-esteem-wise.They’ve been told they’re worthless over and over and over and over again, with the ugliest of words, when they were young, perhaps coupled with being expected to reach extremely high expectations that they could never reach, and then degraded if they don’t reach those expectations. This is where possibly having a parent with NPD can play a role, because pwNPD and BPD tend to idolize a person, but if they fail to reach expectations or do not provide appropriately, they are knocked off and degradation starts.

Another thing is, NPD can also develop if a child is excessively pampered and praised, they are never told no and anything and everything is given to them. This is not respecting a child’s need for autonomy and can result in a sense of entitlement.

BPD mainly results from invalidation- basically excessive gaslighting, being told that their problems aren’t real, inconsistent parenting a lot of the time. Many have been sexually abused, and that’s where the promiscuity can come in.

There’s a movement in the field to re-label borderline personality as Complex-ptsd- essentially saying that an individual has experienced long periods of emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse along with neglect as a child. This creates the symptoms of borderline- such as unhealthy attachments, splitting, emotional volatility, dissociative qualities, parasuicidal behavior etc.

For many the CPTSD diagnosis feels less pejorative and places the blame not on the personality but on the trauma they experienced.

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I support that movement almost whole-heartedly. I do think BPD should stay, though, and providers should proceed to rule-out one from the other- even they are distinct from each other in some areas.

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It is really interesting that current president, One Horse Dog Faced Pony Soldier, is suffering from dementia and his supporters and enablers don’t care. Stumblin Joe is an empty store front president. And his second in command, Kamaalaa is incompetent. That really is interesting.