Life without the Fall

I don’t think so. We’re stipulating in this thread that the God in all this is a loving God, right. And that we’re taking the Bible literally - no evolution!

So the men were very handsome and the women were very beautiful.

I still think they’d have invented some form of clothing to carry stuff, though.

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Who would have taught Adam and Eve to hunt and grow food? Maybe they were starving and that’s why they ate the fruit.

And thankfully due to science and internet that has dropped dramatically over the last century

Every thread here is aimed at believers or made by believers. Theres always someone in every thread getting mad at atheists for posting their opinion.

Has anyone ever figured out what this supposed “fruit” was?

Was the “knowledge of good and evil” just a metaphor for coming of age?

The King James version has an interesting translation:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish [ to fill or make complete again ] the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
–Genesis 1:28

The problem with ancient religious texts are, no one understands the meaning anymore.

Go back 150 years in the United States, ask someone, “Hey, wassup, bro??”
Think they’ll respond with, “Not much, you?” :thinking:

Not that I know of. The most interesting theory is that it was the fig (based on they made clothes of fig leaves). Since the tree was identified as knowledge of good and evil, and there is no such “tree”, it is likely “fruit” is allegory as well.

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Yet the “allegory” is talking about real things and reality itself is an “invented concept” according to the Wisdom Teachers.

Fascinating…

A quick check of my Catholic Bible shows that the word used in this version is “fill.” Next I checked for the word used in the Torah and it also says “fill.” It appears that first definition of “replenish” (to fill) is what is in play in other translations.

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Perhaps the good King should have just said “plenish” then.

The problem with Genesis is, it’s a surviving historical account that is far older than Ur, where Father Abraham learned of it, then proceeded to orally pass the tradition until Moses finally put that telephone game to paper.

For all we know, the original version of Genesis was first written tens of thousands of years before Sumeria, and merely preserved there. After all, there have been at least 6 different species of humans sharing this planet since the dawn of Sapiens ~250,000+ years ago.

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He was a man of his time. The etymology of the word begins in France with “plenir”. It meant to fill up. When “replenir” was used the “re” at that time meant “intensely”.

We can see how the “re-” later evolved to how it is commonly used today (i.e., empty and refill) but in King James’ time it meant to not just fill–but fill to the brim.

Words change and evolve–and I find that intensely interesting. I am always replenishing my knowledge of vocabulary. :wink:

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They do change, and with that, our ability to see the original intent/meaning.

We are the most recent addition to Humanity (Sapiens). We are also the last surviving species of humans left. When we’re gone, humanity is gone forever. There is, however, hundreds of thousands of years worth of human history before we even appear in the fossil record.

Genesis is not the beginning story for humanity (which includes Erectus, Heidelbergensis, Neanderthal, Denisovan, Floresiensis, et. al.). At best, it’s merely our (Sapien) beginning.

At worst, Genesis is an evolved form of Sumerian traditions pertaining to the Anunnaki, where the Genesis of Mankind, The Garden of Eden, and the Deluge are written very similarly to Father Abraham’s oral traditions.

Ah, I think I now understand where you are coming from. Do you think that by “replenish” God had these earlier forms of mankind in mind?

I agree. Good stories survive and are retold in ways a changing world and new generations and cultures can still grasp their meaning. Genesis, in my opinion, is a brilliantly written story. I agree much meaning is now beyond our current understanding.

I get why some believers are fervent in taking the Bible literally. They get the point of the story and move on to other lessons. Atheists who insist on taking the Bible literally mystify me. Do they want to show that since the story is illogical the point is illogical? I don’t know.

I took the advice (when reading the Old Testament) to consider two things. First, the knowledge we have gained since it was written. God is unchanging. Therefore, if we know God is not the direct cause of natural disasters and illnesses today, we know that He was not the direct cause in yesteryear. Second, what is not true today (i.e. talking donkeys, trees where knowledge can be plucked from actual branches) then there is an excellent chance it was not true in the distant past, either. That is our first clue we are entering into the Lands of Allegory and Symbolism.

The subjective reality is coded into a story using physical realities. The subjective (knowledge) becomes a tree (physical image) that produces fruit with the knowledge of both good and evil. This imagery is the author trying to communicate with his audience without putting them to sleep.

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I do, because the extinction of every human species so far seems to coincide with a major global event, like the super volcano Mt. Toba erupting, or a celestial event that ends an ice age, or even just being in the depths of a glacial period.

Around the time of the Sumerians (about 5,000 years ago), there is evidence of a one mile wide asteroid striking the Indian Ocean, which would have flooded the fertile crescent. If a man named Noah were into astronomy, the heavens may very well have shown him that a disaster was coming.

Likewise, there is evidence of a comet striking the ice sheets over North America about 13,000 years ago, which led to the submersion of coastal areas equaling the landmass of Europe and China combined, never to come above sea level since. There are no Denisovans or Floresiensis left after this event.

About 70,000 years ago, the super volcano Mt. Toba erupted, and ■■■■ Erectus went extinct right around the same time.

There are cycles of catastrophe on this planet, with a massive loss of human life every time. Each time, we have to replenish the Earth.

Love this explanation. Thank you.

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I was trying to add an edit earlier but the stupid software locked up again. :confused:

It was, “Each time, we have to replenish the Earth, and the survivors are likely left wondering what they did to anger God so much that such was their fate.”

It appears they did not often wonder. At least in Biblical stories, they looked back on their own behavior and found it wanting. This makes sense. When humanity is taken back to basic survival, all the silly quarrels we have time for when we are comfortable make us realize that time quarreling could have been put to much better use.

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For example, in this current age, people are so comfortable, they actually think God isn’t real. That’s how easy and boring modern life has actually gotten with the advance of technology the way we tend to use it. People who are forced to live among the animals that would eat their children tend to have spiritual beliefs.

Good- faith healings and resurrections of the dead are not possible today. And demon possessions are not reall.

Therefore, Jesus never healed anyone nor did he raise Lazarus…or himself…from the dead.

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Back to Life Without the Fall…

We are told that the tree of knowledge of good and evil had always been present. We know that simply because people did evil once, it did not render them incapable of doing good. Good can prevail, which is the story Christ told, the life Christ lived.

Even so, Genesis continues, hopefully not in a circle, but more like a spiral. Adam means both ‘red clay’ and ‘mankind’. Each one of us enters the stage and plays the same part. We came from a good place, we are innocent, but we do know right from wrong. And each one of us chooses wrong at some point. After that, it is easier to do it again. But…each one of us can still choose to do good and that is what many of us choose to do.

The reason I think we are in a spiral, not a circle, is that we have rejected slavery. We have rejected torturous deaths such as crucifixions. At least for the most part. Let’s pray that those who do choose human trafficking and inflicting horrendous deaths on people do not overcome the good many are doing.

The reason we are as we are today is not because of Adam and Eve, but because each of us is Adam/Eve. We have not yet totally changed the story of mankind.