Leftist Answer to Everything: Socialism

[fallenturtle]

@WildRose

I don’t care if you think you can vote it in, the transition will not be peaceful.

Thank you for your opinion.

[fallenturtle]

@anon91495210

Yes, we get it. “This time will be different.” Just like all of the other times…

Yes, a different population in a different area at a different time implementing a different system will have different results.

[fallenturtle]

@Toll_Collector

@fallenturtle

Most of those small businesses and family farms/ranches would have to be in support of transitioning to socialism for their to be enough votes to actually legally change the US from a mostly capitalist economy to one that was socialist. I’m fairly positive it would require amending the constitution.

Its also not impossible that there could be a situation where companies over a certain sized have to be co-ops but not smaller companies. That’s the thing with socialism is that there’s not one set way of doing it.

You’re talking a level of support rarely seen in the US if amending the constitution is needed. Of course if you have that much support almost anything can change. But if you’re talking about going from where we are today to phasing out private ownership, we’re probably not talking over the course of a few generations. We’re probably talking about a few life cycles in this country.

I’m not sure the difference between a life cycle and a generation, but yes… it would need to be slow and there’s certainly not enough people who want to do that for it to happen anytime soon.

[fallenturtle]

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

that authoritarianism is bad,

Without authoritarianism, socialism cannot exist.

Of course you can, unless your idea of what is or isn’t authoritarianism is different then mine. Do you consider the current rules and regulations placed on businesses in the US to be authoritarian?

[WuWei]

@fallenturtle

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

that authoritarianism is bad,

Without authoritarianism, socialism cannot exist.

Of course you can, unless your idea of what is or isn’t authoritarianism is different then mine. Do you consider the current rules and regulations placed on businesses in the US to be authoritarian?

No, it can’t.

Of course it is.

[fallenturtle]

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

that authoritarianism is bad,

Without authoritarianism, socialism cannot exist.

Of course you can, unless your idea of what is or isn’t authoritarianism is different then mine. Do you consider the current rules and regulations placed on businesses in the US to be authoritarian?

No, it can’t.

Of course it is.

If your bar for what is or isn’t authoritarian is that low, its probably impossible for this conversation to continue in a fruitful manner.

[WuWei]

@fallenturtle

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

@WuWei

@fallenturtle

that authoritarianism is bad,

Without authoritarianism, socialism cannot exist.

Of course you can, unless your idea of what is or isn’t authoritarianism is different then mine. Do you consider the current rules and regulations placed on businesses in the US to be authoritarian?

No, it can’t.

Of course it is.

If your bar for what is or isn’t authoritarian is that low, its probably impossible for this conversation to continue in a fruitful manner.

[anon91495210]

Nope, it won’t. How do we know? The list of countries that have tried this nonsense have one thing in common. Different systems and people exposed to socialist policies met with the same fate.

[fallenturtle]

@anon91495210

Nope, it won’t. How do we know? The list of countries that have tried this nonsense have one thing in common. Different systems and people exposed to socialist policies met with the same fate.

You don’t know because there are different socialist policies at play here. You can’t claim market socialism will fail based on the results of a centrally planned economy. You can’t claim democratic socialism won’t worked based on the results of authoritarian socialism. You can’t claim worker co-ops won’t work based on state ownership. You can’t claim a slow gradual democratic transition to socialism won’t work based on sudden transitions by revolution.

[Impenitent]

this revolution will be different…

the leftists aren’t as well armed as those whose property they want to take

[fallenturtle]

@Impenitent

this revolution will be different…

the leftists aren’t as well armed as those whose property they want to take

There won’t be a revolution.

[AngraMainyu]

@anon91495210

Let me clarify… there’s a big damn difference in overwhelming force to take that which people own and the policing activities to prosecute those that takes what doesn’t belong to them. One is justice, the other is tyranny.

You’re absolutely right. However, much has been taken for the private market in the peripheral areas of the world; land, minerals, other resources.

[AngraMainyu]

True. The Zapatistas had to exercise force against the Mexican government to protect Chiapas.

[WuWei]

@AngraMainyu

True. The Zapatistas had to exercise force against the Mexican government to protect Chiapas.

You can’t make someone give up something they earned to somebody who didn’t earn it without force.

[AngraMainyu]

Totally agree.

[Toll_Collector]

@fallenturtle

I’m not sure the difference between a life cycle and a generation, but yes… it would need to be slow and there’s certainly not enough people who want to do that for it to happen anytime soon.

What I mean by a life cycle is everyone alive today would have to be dead. Go through a few of those. A generation is around 20 years, a life cycle around 80 years.

[13BU6]

@fallenturtle

Or, you know, we could attempt being civilized and devise some sort of transition that doesn’t ■■■■ over the capitalists.

What does it look like, in your eyes, at the end?

[fallenturtle]

@13BU6

@fallenturtle

Or, you know, we could attempt being civilized and devise some sort of transition that doesn’t ■■■■ over the capitalists.

What does it look like, in your eyes, at the end?

I’ve mentioned things earlier in this thread. Capitalists could be given compensation. There could be a transition where current companies are grandfathered in but new companies have to be co-ops, there could be a hybrid system where small business can be private but over a certain size must be co-ops… it also depends on ultimately what sort socialist system we ended up with.

[WildRose]

How do you compensate a family for three, six, ten, twelve or fifteen generations of building up a family farm or business sacrificing generation after generation to keep it viable and growing?

Where exactly is the justice in taking that from them and giving it to people who never put even a second of effort into building anything?

[anon91495210]

Well, I don’t know what sort of socialist system we would start with but I can tell you how they all end but don’t mind me, I’m just going by history.