Justified shooting?

[zantax]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@WuWei

No. That’s not how it works.

Of course it is.

Self-defense don’t allow one to start a fight, and then pull a gun when they start losing.

Dead wrong. Once someone retreat they regain the right to self defense. Which is why you can’t shoot a mugger when he’s running away.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

This is the NM jury instructions regarding the limits of self-defense:

Self defense is not available to the defendant if he [started the fight] [or] [agreed to fight] unless:

[1. The defendant was using force which would not ordinarily create a substantial risk of death or great bodily harm; and

2. __________________ (name of victim) responded with force which would ordinarily create a substantial risk of death or great bodily harm];

[OR]

1. The defendant tried to stop the fight;

2. The defendant let __________________ (name of victim) know he no longer wanted to fight; and

3. __________________ (name of victim) became the aggressor.

I see no evidence that tried to stop the fight, or told the victim that he “no longer wanted to fight”.

Pepper-spraying protestors as he “retreats” does not sound like trying to stop the fight to me.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

. The defendant tried to stop the fight;

2. The defendant let __________________ (name of victim) know he no longer wanted to fight; and

3. __________________ (name of victim) became the aggressor.

Retreating does precisely that counselor.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Do you have a legal citation to support this claim?

It appears to conflict with the NM jury instructions - as well as every legal precedent I’ve ever read.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

Do you have a legal citation to support this claim?

It appears to conflict with the NM jury instructions - as well as every legal precedent I’ve ever read.

https://www.nmlegis.gov/sessions/11%20regular/bills/house/HB0228.html

[TheDoctorIsIn]

No, it doesn’t - particularly when you continue to assault people as you “retreat”.

If I were to walk up to you and punch you in the face, and then immediately “retreat” back ten feet - would I be able to claim “self-defense” if I shot you for coming at me?

[anon91495210]

You can in Texas at night.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

A bill that failed to pass 9 years ago?

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

No, it doesn’t - particularly when you continue to assault people as you “retreat”.

If I were to walk up to you and punch you in the face, and then immediately “retreat” back ten feet - would I be able to claim “self-defense” if I shot you for coming at me?

If you are retreating, you are not assaulting.

Yes.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

A bill that failed to pass 9 years ago?

Look at the unredacted parts. Are you really going to make me go dig around New Mexico law?

[zantax]

@TheDoctorIsIn

This is the NM jury instructions regarding the limits of self-defense:

Self defense is not available to the defendant if he [started the fight] [or] [agreed to fight] unless:

[1. The defendant was using force which would not ordinarily create a substantial risk of death or great bodily harm; and

2. __________________ (name of victim) responded with force which would ordinarily create a substantial risk of death or great bodily harm];

[OR]

1. The defendant tried to stop the fight;

2. The defendant let __________________ (name of victim) know he no longer wanted to fight; and

3. __________________ (name of victim) became the aggressor.

I see no evidence that tried to stop the fight, or told the victim that he “no longer wanted to fight”.

Pepper-spraying protestors as he “retreats” does not sound like trying to stop the fight to me.

Running away isn’t trying to stop the fight? Please.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

This is the section of the law the bill you cited was seeking to change.

https://codes.findlaw.com/nm/chapter-30-criminal-offenses/nm-st-sect-30-2-7.html

There’s no mention of “retreating” at all.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@zantax

Running away isn’t trying to stop the fight? Please.

Not in itself, no. It could mean he was trying to stop the fight - it also could mean he was seeking a strategic advantage in the fight.

That’s why the law requires a verbal statement as well.

[FreeAndClear]

Thanks! Perfect I’ll even use it in a sentence A right wing terrorist was indicted recently for shooting a federal officer in Oakland. Terrorist.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

No, I think it’s you that missed the point.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

This is the section of the law the bill you cited was seeking to change.

https://codes.findlaw.com/nm/chapter-30-criminal-offenses/nm-st-sect-30-2-7.html

There’s no mention of “retreating” at all.

There’s no mention of assaulting either. All I need to defend him is right there.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@zantax

Running away isn’t trying to stop the fight? Please.

Not in itself, no. It could mean he was trying to stop the fight - it also could mean he was seeking a strategic advantage in the fight.

That’s why the law requires a verbal statement as well.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@WuWei

There’s no mention of assaulting either. All I need to defend him is right there.

And when it goes before a jury, they’ll hear the jury instructions I posted before.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@WuWei

There’s no mention of assaulting either. All I need to defend him is right there.

And when it goes before a jury, they’ll hear the jury instructions I posted before.

Sure.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

I found a bunch more videos from before the shooting.

It appears about 5 minutes before the shooting, he brandishes his gun, is non-violently chased from the crowd, and then returns to assault the women previously shown.

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1272958195896467456?s=19

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1272797020130963456?s=19