Justice Department Takes Aim at Judge Cannon

Rodeo · 2022-10-17T23:07:47.757Z

Awesome…

Guess I won’t vote for Trump next month.

I m sure liberals can point to the major smoking gun that justifies a raid of that magnitude on the home of a former president.

I’ll gracefully bow out…this isn’t a story I paid attention to so if you all say Trump’s a dirtbag…well that’s your opinion it’s a free country.

I don’t want to sidetrack the thread so…

Thank you for your opinion.

WorldWatcher · 2022-10-17T23:20:25.182Z

Rodeo:

Awesome…

Guess I won’t vote for Trump next month.

I m sure liberals can point to the major smoking gun that justifies a raid of that magnitude on the home of a former president.

I’ll gracefully bow out…this isn’t a story I paid attention to so if you all say Trump’s a dirtbag…well that’s your opinion it’s a free country.

I don’t want to sidetrack the thread so…

Thank you for your opinion.

It’s called a private citizen stealing hundreds of classified documents including secret, top secret and special classification (SCI and SAP) documents and refusing to return them when asked, he was given plenty of breaks as the FPOTUS to do the right thing and he refused.

After 18 months a fully justified search warrant was secured and executed to that highly sensitive documents were returned.

If I’d taken the same level of documents home when I retired that the FPOTUS did, there would have been no 18-month grace period. My butt would be in Leavenworth doing 10-20.

WW

Camp · 2022-10-17T23:28:39.128Z

You are pretty funny when you put a fancy dress on your bias.

It is so well crafted.

Besides I thought that Dearie had sunk the Trump defense already.

Not really paying attention until the abuse of office to attack a political rival takes the stage.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2022-10-17T23:30:15.888Z

Camp:

You are pretty funny when you put a fancy dress on your bias.

There is nothing biased about the OP.

Camp · 2022-10-17T23:33:15.560Z

The unmitigated gall to claim the Justice Department was 100 % justified when nobody knows what they took.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2022-10-17T23:35:03.064Z

Camp:

The unmitigated gall to claim the Justice Department was 100 % justified when nobody knows what they took.

This is a strawman. Did you even bother to read the OP?

Camp · 2022-10-17T23:39:24.818Z

Not going down that dead end.

Like I said

Let me know when the abuse of office to attack a political rival takes the stage.

Until then spin your wheels while the rest of us lose earnings and watch nuclear tension escalate.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2022-10-17T23:42:41.458Z

Camp:

Not going down that dead end.

Like I said

Let me know when the abuse of office to attack a political rival takes the stage.

Until then spin your wheels while the rest of us lose earnings and watch nuclear tension escalate.

Ok. See you next time you post in one of these threads about how disinterested in the topic you are.

GrandWazoo · 2022-10-18T00:22:36.057Z

Rodeo:

My understanding is trump did everything be was asked to do with those documents and still the Merrick Garland signature daylight raid happened.

Is your understanding based on what Trump said? Because the Judge who signed off on the search warrant was not convinced that there was corporation.

Rodeo · 2022-10-18T00:35:19.237Z

WorldWatcher:

If I’d taken the same level of documents home when I retired that the FPOTUS did, there would have been no 18-month grace period. My butt would be in Leavenworth doing 10-20.

WW

So I probably should have stayed out of this thread…as I think about it it’s been quite a while since I’ve paid any attention to this story. My apologies to the original poster.

But we have learned a lesson from this particular post.

When your term as president is over you should absolutely make sure you leave every scrap of paper behind…you might consider leaving all of your significant other’s clothes there too just in case someone shows up for an early morning raid with a bunch of armed federal agents it will save them some time, especially if you are thinking of running against whoever follows you into the Oval Office…It’s always awkward when those kinds of raids against political opponents happen so you might want to smooth out the process.

So yes I’m being a smart ass…I seriously haven’t followed this story so I will bow out…Other than to say that we should all be very concerned about the continued appearance of a two tiered justice system coming from the Biden/Garland administration. This country can’t function if President’s and Attorney’s General are using our most powerful law enforcement agencies as their own personal political enforcement arm. I questioned the need for a raid of this magnitude when it happened, and I continue to question the need for a raid.

Anyway have at me I’m off to do other things and worry about other issues.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2022-10-18T00:49:54.987Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

Camp:

Not going down that dead end.

Like I said

Let me know when the abuse of office to attack a political rival takes the stage.

Until then spin your wheels while the rest of us lose earnings and watch nuclear tension escalate.

Ok. See you next time you post in one of these threads about how disinterested in the topic you are.

Performative disinterest.

Now THAT is just sad

SixFoot · 2022-10-18T00:58:01.771Z

Isn’t it weird how libs worship the government nowadays while the right demands accountability?

Smyrna · 2022-10-18T10:21:47.688Z

Safiel:

But there are a relatively small handful on the conservative side who have pushed the envelope.

Can you have a word with Chief Justice Roberts and have him do that…at least…once in a while?

ohknow35 · 2022-10-18T13:48:24.205Z

WorldWatcher:

If I’d taken the same level of documents home when I retired that the FPOTUS did, there would have been no 18-month grace period. My butt would be in Leavenworth doing 10-20.

WW

Ridiculously absurd, naive and ludicrous comparison.

Carry on.

WorldWatcher · 2022-10-18T13:55:28.244Z

ohknow35:

WorldWatcher:

If I’d taken the same level of documents home when I retired that the FPOTUS did, there would have been no 18-month grace period. My butt would be in Leavenworth doing 10-20.

WW

Ridiculously absurd, naive and ludicrous comparison.

Carry on.

So…

Retired Navy Chief that violates the law in regards to post career handling, retention and refusal to return classified documents. Investigation, Seizure (via a legal search warrant), and possible prosecution.

Retire Chief that violates the law in regards to post career handling, retention and refusal to return classified documents. Totally different.
.
.
.
The very definition of a two tier justice system.

WW

GA_LP · 2022-10-18T15:16:13.683Z

Oh come on Chief, you didn’t possess the unilateral power to declassify those documents. The burden to prove those documents weren’t declassified still falls on the DOJ. I’m not real happy with the situation but I don’t trust Garland’s motivations as far as I can throw him.

ohknow35 · 2022-10-18T15:21:16.898Z

WorldWatcher:

So…

Retired Navy Chief that violates the law in regards to post career handling, retention and refusal to return classified documents. Investigation, Seizure (via a legal search warrant), and possible prosecution.

Retire Chief that violates the law in regards to post career handling, retention and refusal to return classified documents. Totally different.
.
.
.
The very definition of a two tier justice system.

WW

Please continue to make even more stupid arguments.

It’s hilarious.

WorldWatcher · 2022-10-18T15:24:24.423Z

GA_LP:

Oh come on Chief, you didn’t possess the unilateral power to declassify those documents. The burden to prove those documents weren’t declassified still falls on the DOJ. I’m not real happy with the situation but I don’t trust Garland’s motivations as far as I can throw him.

The DOJ has no burden to prove classified documents remains classified.

Why?

Because the FPOTUS has not made any claim in court that he actually declassified them prior to noon on January 20, 2021.

When he does, then the DOJ will be able to provide evidence that the FPOTUS DIDN’T declassify them based on his own words and deeds. For example, if the documents were declassified prior to noon on January 20, 2021. Then there would have been no classified documents to surrender in June per the Grand Jury subpoena. But the FPOTUS didn’t challenge the subpoena on any grounds and did return classified documents. Even packaging them in a manner consistent with handling classified documents (a sealed redwall with classification markings).

WW

WorldWatcher · 2022-10-18T15:28:04.698Z

GA_LP:

Oh come on Chief, you didn’t possess the unilateral power to declassify those documents. The burden to prove those documents weren’t declassified still falls on the DOJ. I’m not real happy with the situation but I don’t trust Garland’s motivations as far as I can throw him.

And as s second thought to just point out…

See this is what people that don’t understand “classified” shows. Documents are not “declassified” it is the information in the document that is declassified.

For example lets say that there are 6 copies of a specific document containing specific classified information. One located in the White House, 5 located amongst various agencies which also need the document. In addition there are subordinate documents that contain (either in part of in whole some of the same classified information).

Under a normal process when the information contained in a highly classified documents is declassified (or downgraded) that impacts all copies of the document (it’s information, and subordinate documents containing the same information in whole or portions of a subordinate document).

So If the FPOTUS “declassified” a document, he is really declassifying the information in that document. If the FPOTUS, while acting as POTUS, “declassified” the information without telling anyone (either directly or in writing) for that specific document, you end up with:

One copy of the information located at the White House being “declassified”, and
Five copies of the information located at the responsible agencies still being classified as the responsible agencies will not know the information was declassified because they FPOTUS (while POTUS) just mentally declassified the information in his head.
The result is someone could be prosecuted for improper handling of classified material for actions related to the 5 responsible agency documents, but not for improper handling of the exact same document if the source of the document was the White House. But they contain the same information. By this we are talking about the information in the document and subordinate information which sourced the document which can have even wider reaching impacts.

The national security infrastructure cannot function in a reasonable way if the same information is both classified and declassified at the same time simply because the POTUS chooses not to tell anyone.

Kind of a Schrodinger’s Classified document where the same information is both classified and declassified at the same time until someone asks the FPOTUS to find out if he mentally and secretly declassified it without telling anyone while still POTUS. Normal people wouldn’t know just be looking at the document.

WW

TheDoctorIsIn · 2022-10-18T15:29:52.129Z

GA_LP:

The burden to prove those documents weren’t declassified still falls on the DOJ.

While this is almost correct, you’re getting way ahead of yourself here.

Donald Trump has not yet been charged with any crimes, in regard to these documents. If the DoJ charges him, they will have the burden of proving that the documents contain “information relating to national defense.”

They will not have to prove that Trump didn’t declassify them. Trump may choose to argue that he did at some point secretly declassify them as a defense - but that’s a defense, not a get out of jail free card.

Whether the documents contain “information relating to national defense” is a question of fact, to be determined by a jury.