There’s a Gospel of Judas, which paints Judas, one of Jesus’ handpicked 12 apostles, as a friend of Christ’s who was just following orders. (Which is why Jesus presumably told Judas, “What you have to do, do quickly.”)
Jesus knew he had to die as a sacrifice to redeem Man’s sins.
This would also explain why all of the apostles were nowhere to be found during this point - they knew Jesus had to die, too, so there was no point in them interfering.
Also, in 1 Corinthians 15:5, Jesus appears to Cephas and “the Twelve” - meaning all twelve apostles including Judas. (Because Matthias, who was apparently elected to replace Judas, didn’t become an apostle until 50 days after this).
A betrayer wasn’t actually needed - anyone would have been able to point out Jesus, especially the Pharisees who knew what he looked like…
So was Judas turned into a “scapegoat” for Christ’s death because he was a Jew?
Similar as in things that don’t make sense, that I hope believers will explain to me?
The Lord knew what Judas would do but it was Judas that chose to do it.
But the question is…why?
Why did Judas “betray” Jesus, considering that such a betrayal wasn’t necessary? Everyone knew what Jesus looked like, or would be able to pick him out in a crowd - he’d be the one doing the talking.
Was Judas one of “the twelve” that Jesus appeared to, or do you think that was a typo? (In other words, you disbelieve the book of Judas?)
Smyrna, it’s already been established that nothing anyone can say will sway the belief of a true believer.
I’m not trying to make anyone doubt anything - I freely admit that that’s impossible. You are all strong in your faith.
What I would like is for these things that puzzle me to be explained by someone who does believe in them.
We do not know the path each of us has taken to arrive at where we are. So often, I hear people condemn someone who has a characteristic they don’t like…but the question I have to ask myself is, if I was in their shoes, born into the same situation, would I be any different?
Why Judas betrayed The Lord was for money. That’s the simple answer. The more complicated answer is much deeper and I can’t say? Who were Judas’s parents? What did they teach him? What were they like? What did he observe as he was developing into adulthood?
I take the Bible at it’s word and if it says something, I believe it. That said, I also know, I do not have all of the details. In cases where I want to know more, I pray and research.
My understanding is that Judas thought he was doing the right thing because he would force Jesus’ hand to become the Messiah that Jews thought the Messiah would be. That is to say, the Jews of that day expected the Messiah to lead an army against geo-political enemies of Israel, defeat those enemies, and make Israel the premier power of the world. And in turning Jesus over to the authorities, Judas would kick-start Jesus’ Messianic Mission.
In fact, Jesus DID defeat the biggest enemy of all – sin and death – just as he was supposed to do.
As you noted, Judas’ betrayal wasn’t necessary to initiate Jesus’ passion and death. God just let that particular action be the catalyst that day.
I see it the terms of God appearing, not in the great storms, volcanoes, etc., but in the tiny whispering sound.
We listen closely, and we hear, “Sins are forgiven.” This tiny whisper, yet it resulted in a huge uproar, not unlike our current election.
I don’t go into whether God knew this or God knew what ahead of time. What I do think is that God sent forth this quiet message, which people could have accepted with joy and peace.
Instead of embracing this news, it was greeted with hostility, some people in favor of it, others against it for whatever reason(s).
What we do know is that the other Apostles saw Judas as one who either turned from the message, misunderstood it, or decided to go his own way because he decided it was time to move on with his life.
We also know that God ordained this message to go out, and that not even death prevented it from reaching all.
Jesus said that He had to die. Christianity holds that He had to die. Without His death, there could have been no Resurrection. It’s the Resurrection that is the whole key to Christianity. Without that, Christianity would be meaningless – and the bible says that in one of Paul’s letters.
So… “God wanted it to happen?” Absolutely yes.
Judas didn’t MAKE it happen. Judas was just one event in 100 that resulted in Jesus’ death.
Nobody can say whether or not Judas is in hell. That’s God’s call.
This is a thread in which I hope to discuss Judas, Judas’ actions, and people’s thoughts about Judas.
You responded to the thread. I’m responding to what you said, asking for clarification. That’s the very antithesis of randomness, FYI.
Jesus said that He had to die. Christianity holds that He had to die. Without His death, there could have been no Resurrection. It’s the Resurrection that is the whole key to Christianity. Without that, Christianity would be meaningless – and the bible says that in one of Paul’s letters.
Exactly. That’s what you believe. Meri, in her response, seemed to imply that Jesus did not have to die as the Sacrificial Lamb for Christianity to be founded.
So many Christians, so many different beliefs. That’s why I ask the same question of different people - I get different answers and those answers are instructive.
Judas didn’t MAKE it happen. Judas was just one event in 100 that resulted in Jesus’ death.
True.
Nobody can say whether or not Judas is in hell. That’s God’s call.
And do you have an opinion? Do you think that, as God’s instrument, Judas should be in Hell for betraying Jesus?
Or do you think he’s a hero, doing what Jesus’ commanded of him? (What you must do, do quickly)
I am merely noting Jesus did not (necessarily) have to die.
IF the people embraced Jesus’ teaching of Repentance for the forgiveness of sins THEN he did not have to die. The people did not. In fact they argued he did not have the authority to make any such claim.
Jesus said his authority came from God, and gave examples. The religious leaders said nothing doing, a covenant from God is only valid when sealed by blood. They pointed out the covenant with Abraham.
This is what set the stage for the crucifixion. Not only would this satisfy that blood covenant that Jesus’ authority in fact came from God, Jesus noted that a seed must die in order for it to take root and produce abundantly.
Smyrna and Guvnah (and even I) will point out that God, who understands human behavior, saw only one possible end (the crucifixion). This being the case, He also knew He held the trump card–the resurrection.
My only point is that I have thought a lot about what might have prevented the crucifixion AND moved God’s plan of salvation forward. Note that these thoughts began with “IF”.
I was watching a video - an atheist video, admittedly - which postulated that it was a later fiction, meant to blame the Jews as in “Judas” for Christ’s betrayal.
Jesus’ words might have been well known to the Pharisees, but his face wasn’t. Jerusalem was not his usual place. They needed someone to a) identify that this person is indeed that preacher. and b) to know where he would be so that soldiers could go there and arrest him.
Non-Catholic Christianity has always ignored the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation, hearing the pronouncement that sins are forgiven.
Also long forgotten is that no blood sacrifice was ever required for the forgiveness of sins. Blood is the sign of a covenant, not the sign of forgiveness.
Notice, too, that Jesus was proclaiming “Your sins are forgiven” long before he gave his life, and his enemies were angered by this. He was declaring a new Covenant, not making a sacrificial statement.
Jesus gave his life over the message because only God could forgive sins. Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection points to the truth of his words and his authority to announce the forgiveness of sins. He died over this issue.
One of the finest verses in the Catholic Mass is, “Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world…” Not only does he pronounce the forgiveness for sins that occur, how many sins have not been committed due to faith in God, faith in Jesus?
The atheist mind set is no belief in God, no belief in sin, no belief in Jesus, no belief that sins need forgiving. For those of us who believe in God and who take sin seriously are blessed knowing the assurance of forgiveness. In the Eucharist, in the forgiveness of sins, we come to know Jesus and believe he is who says he is.
Sure, I may have a slightly different perspective in the fact that many do believe God sent a sacrifice. I believe God sent a message that resulted in a great sacrifice.
Look at Jesus’ life. He had a message from God; he believed in complete obedience to God. When he reached the point of death, he did not shrug and turn away knowing he tried his best. He went through death noting the fact that the seed must die before it can produce abundantly. How can we not be more than just grateful?
Yes, some sects go so far as to teach that for those who believe in Jesus, all the sins they ever will commit were atoned for two thousand years before they were even born.
