John Doe (United States Citizen held in military custody in Iraq) prevails at DC Circuit

Safiel · 2018-05-08T18:04:33.745Z

Very unlikely that a Treason charge could have been successfully prosecuted, even had they brought him to the United States right away.

Treason is, deliberately, a very difficult charge to convict on. We are not technically in a State of War with ISIS, so it is not enough that he merely adhered to ISIS and gave them aid and comfort. He would have had to commit an overt act of aggression against the United States that was observed by the mandatory two witnesses. Because the United States can’t even find a lesser charge to prosecute him with, it is pretty much a given that they don’t have the “overt act” and two witnesses necessary to charge him with treason.

There is a major reason that there have been no treason charges leveled since WWII and the immediate aftermath of WWII. The United States has not been in a state of declared war since World War II. It is very likely that the courts would only consider as an “enemy” within the meaning of Article III of the Constitution to be a country with which we were in a state of declared war. A non-state organization such as ISIS would likely not be considered an enemy within the meaning of Article III. Therefore, to commit treason, a person would need to commit an overt act of war against the United States, such as firing on U.S. troops or laying land mines. Merely adhering to an organization such as ISIS would not constitute aid and comfort to an enemy within the meaning of Article III.

The fact that they cannot make a lesser charge stick tells me that treason is out of the question.

biggestal99 · 2018-05-08T18:19:24.876Z

They did not have to be mirandized. that was the 40’s

Allan

biggestal99 · 2018-05-08T18:21:19.008Z

Trump admin botched the case…

Allan

biggestal99 · 2018-05-08T18:22:26.952Z

If this was the Obama admin, this terrorist would prolly be dead.

Allan

Gaius · 2018-05-08T19:12:23.463Z

Yeah kinda like being a member of the German Army caught while im base camp.

Can’t hold him without trial?
I believe the Eisenhower and Roosevelt were right to treat them like any other enemy.

Safiel · 2018-05-08T20:54:03.814Z

Gaius:

Yeah kinda like being a member of the German Army caught while im base camp.

Can’t hold him without trial?
I believe the Eisenhower and Roosevelt were right to treat them like any other enemy.

There were very few treason trials during WWII. Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally and a handful of others.

Safiel · 2018-05-27T04:23:11.225Z

Since I originally posted this OP, decision has been reviewed for security purposes and has now been fully released. It was released on May 9, but I missed it at the time.

Lawfare – 9 May 18

Document: D.C. Circuit Opinion on Transfer Injunction in Doe v. Mattis

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has released its opinion affirming the lower court's injunction on the U.S. military's planned transfer of John Doe, a U.S. citizen held in military custody in Iraq. The court ruled on Monday, but the...

The full Opinion of the Court by Judge Sri Srinivasan (joined by Judge Robert Wilkins) and the full dissent by Judge Karen Henderson is at the above link.

Safiel · 2018-05-27T16:10:13.236Z

CassandraJoe:

Interesting. So the habeus corpus case isn’t yet decided. This decision appears to prevent U.S. Forces from quietly handing over American John Doe to Syria, from his U.S. custody in Iraq, so that the Syrians can torture Mr. Doe to death, making the habeus case moot.

Pretty much the state of things at the moment. However, “Country B” is Saudi Arabia. “Country A” is more likely to be Iraq.

WuWei · 2018-05-27T20:00:30.939Z

Turn him loose.

In New Jersey.

Bill.in.PA · 2018-05-27T20:28:26.394Z

Not to worry; the Obama administration established that the President is free to kill anyone he wishes based on an internal review within the executive branch.

Based on that logic, all the President needs to do is to release John Doe and immediately order a drone strike to do him in.

For background see:

the Guardian – 15 Nov 16

How the US justifies drone strikes: targeted killing, secrecy and the law

For decades the US condemned targeted killings, characterizing them as assassinations – but it was unclear what distinguished America’s drone campaign from the killings it historically rejected as unlawful

SixFoot · 2018-05-27T20:33:00.906Z

He won’t survive the outcome.

biggestal99 · 2018-05-27T21:17:29.063Z

Once he is in us custody he cannot be released and droned. Lol

Too late to drone him.

Allan

Safiel · 2018-05-27T23:30:46.611Z

The correct outcome in this case would be that John Doe is granted his original habeas corpus prayer in full, which would see him returned to the United States and released from custody, unless the United States intends to charge him in the Article III Courts with a crime.

Even if Saudi Arabia has a legitimate charge against him, there is no extradition treaty between Saudi Arabia and the United States and thus there is no possibility of a transfer that comports with due process guarantees.

John Doe is a United States Citizen and there is simply no circumstance where a United States President may unilaterally and arbitrarily hand a United States Citizen over to another country without due process.

calirepub · 2018-05-28T11:39:16.260Z

Safiel:

John Doe is a United States Citizen and there is simply no circumstance where a United States President may unilaterally and arbitrarily hand a United States Citizen over to another country without due process.

When the president does it it’s not illegal.

biggestal99 · 2018-05-28T13:05:49.385Z

Except when he stopped by the courts.

Allan

Hellsbane · 2018-05-28T13:37:17.571Z

On the merits of the case/ruling, i agree with the courts decision… BUT… this could have consequences the courts and ACLU have not foreseen. The only reason this case arose is because Syria, after capturing John Doe in the field, turned him over to the US Military, who accepted him. Future consequence could be the US Military not accepting US citizens fighting for our enemies captured by foreign forces in combat. Not in US custody, not our problem.

biggestal99 · 2018-05-28T14:11:40.833Z

They shoulda just droned him, but cons here don’t like the obama ruling droning a United States citizen.

Allan

calirepub · 2018-05-28T16:06:06.363Z

biggestal99:

Except when he stopped by the courts.

Allan

Like he cares what the courts rule. What are the courts going do after he ignores them?

SpacemanSpiff · 2018-05-28T18:21:11.748Z

The Miranda warning didn’t exist back then.

biggestal99 · 2018-05-28T19:02:19.502Z

Lol. Won’t happen.

Allan