Is the Bible a land grant for the modern state of Israel?

Religion
21

I make my determinations from Scripture.

In the passage you quoted, God was getting Moses acquainted with Him. He was just tending his sheep like he did every day and noticed the bush that was on fire but was not consumed. God got Moses’ attention. The burning bush is not remembered when telling the story. God called Moses there to lead His people.

After that, God gave Moses the Old Covenant of law from Mountain Sinai – the mountain that quaked.

The ground was holy because God’s presence was there.

Under the New Covenant of Grace, people are holy, places are not. God has no shrines upon this earth except the hearts and minds of men and women. There are no holy places. “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God.” He makes his home with me in my body through His Spirit, so that wherever I go He goes. Paul said “glorify God in your body.” Wherever a child of God goes, God is there.

God cannot be boxed in and Thank God, there are no sanctuaries.

22

As do I. I don’t think we are really in a disagreement.

I have no disagreement with any of this. My only point was that it is not for me to know the mind of God. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow why would I presume to know if God will do again what he has done in the past.

Again I have very little disagreement with any of this.

Again I only am pointing out that I do not presume to know the mind of God.

But here is an example from Revelation 21: 1-3

1Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

Would you not call this holy ground?

23

Reading on down in chapter 21 to verse 5.

Rev. 21:4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."

Rev 21:5 "And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

Verse 5. “Behold, I make all things new.”

All things, no exceptions.

During the period between 30 AD and 70 AD, God was making ALL THINGS NEW. The word new used here Kainos, relates to form or quality of a different nature from what is OLD. When God said he was making all things new, in respect to form, quality and nature, He was taking the “old” natural things and changing their form, quality and nature. The nature of the things of the Old Covenant was changing from natural to spiritual ---- Changing from seen to unseen ---- from the temporal to the eternal.

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen, for the things which are seen are temporal but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Cor. 4:18

God was changing all things from natural to spiritual, no exception.

The Old (Jerusalem) had to pass away before the New (Jerusalem) was made.

Prophecy ended in that first century. Jerusalem was destroyed in that first century.

God dwells with us in spirit in that New Covenant of Grace.

Holy but not Holy ground.

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Are you trying to tell me that you believe that the events of Revelation 21 have already come to pass?

Once again, who am I, who are you, who is anyone to presume to know the mind of God.

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I own Malibu from the forests to the seas and have dominium over all of them all.

"Your" progeny here, will be slaves for 400 years.

27

I wasn’t just trying, I thought I was pretty plain. :laughing: I say that from years of study from Genesis to Revelation many times.

We can only know what He has revealed to us.

Deut. 29:29

"The secret things belong to the LORD our God; but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

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If that is what you truly believe then I am afraid we are at an impasse as I believe that these are prophesies that are yet to be fulfilled.

You kind of make my point here. ^^^

Romans 11:34

“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”

May I ask of what religion / denomination you belong to?

29

That is not a problem for me. Being in agreement on Scripture is not a requirement for being a child of God.

The Spirit unites us, we don’t have anything to do with that. “For by one Spirit we were all Baptized into one Body – Jews, Greeks, slaves or feee – and all were made to drink of the self same Spirit.” 1 Cor 12:13

It is not our role to create unity, – the Spirit does that. Our responsibility is to recognize and “maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” Eph 4:1-6

This unity is not built on agreement, that is not the basis of unity. The basis of unity is Christ.

That could also apply to those who make a continuous history jumbled maze from the prophecies.

I am not partial to any one denomination. I identify with being a child of God.

30

The earth belongs to God. Therefore it is his prerogative to give land to whoever he chooses. He gave the Holy land to Abraham and his descendants forever. He never rescinded that covenant. He displaced them from their land several times due to their stubborn disobedience, but he promised he would bring them back to their homeland. He did this in 1948 and technically the Jews are entitled to all the land they had in biblical times. Granted that other nations and and people are occupying a lot of that land, but certainly when Jesus returns, he will be returning to Jerusalem and establishing his millennial rule from there. Gods plan WILL come to pass. The Jews will get back what is theirs. In the meantime other nations will continue to hate and persecute them and try to destroy them- that’s not going to happen. God said he will curse those who curse Israel and bless those who bless Israel. We’ve been under God’s curse for what the anti semite Libs have been doing to Israel, but God’s blessing will return when Trump takes office and begins proactively treating Israel as our ally again. Trump should help Israel in every way possible…

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God made the earth for a dwelling place for his creation of mankind. He left them free to live wherever they choose to live. He commanded them to “be fruitful and multiply” and fill the earth with their offspring.

When you study the Old Covenant scripture, ---- , you understand that what the prophets prophesied under that Old Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus under the New Covenant, which is between God and all mankind. You also understand what God is like.

God is Love.

"Jesus said to her “stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren (the Jews) and say to them ‘I ascend to my Father and your Father and my Yahweh and your Yahweh.’” John 20:17.

In the first century, AD, the Israelites (both dead and resurrected) along with those Israelites who were still alive, ascended to meet Jesus in the air. No one else. No one can have everlasting life until they first rise to meet God. Not even Jesus.

From that day, until today – 2025 and beyond, we receive our reward when we meet yahweh in the air – when we die physically, if we have been born from above, and we are faithful to Yahweh.

Mark *11:*28 “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Learn of Jesus. God didn’t give us a book full of riddles to spend our life trying to figure out.

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Luke 24:44 “Then he said to them, “These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures,”

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33

And that means people’s compassionate actions and prayer, to propagate the Supreme Law.

34

That is the story that has been told in the US and Israel. The reality is far different based on Israeli war plans from March 1948:

Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state.

The villages which are emptied in the manner described above must be included in the fixed defensive system and must be fortified as necessary.

In the absence of resistance, garrison troops will enter the village and take up positions in it or in locations which enable complete tactical control. The officer in command of the unit will confiscate all weapons, wireless devices, and motor vehicles in the village. In addition, he will detain all politically suspect individuals. After consultation with the [Jewish] political authorities, bodies will be appointed consisting of people from the village to administer the internal affairs of the village. In every region, a [Jewish] person will be appointed to be responsible for arranging the political and administrative affairs of all [Arab] villages and population centers which are occupied within that region.
Plan Dalet for War of Independence (March 1948)

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Yes, Genesis says that Abraham’s “seed” is the heir to the promises to Abraham. That is a literal translation of the Hebrew as shown in the KJV, although modern translations frequently use translate the word as “descendants”:

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates. Genesis 15:18

Who is the true seed? Paul clarifies that:

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ . . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:16,29 NIV

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

Personally I don’t see that the bible is intended to be a modern land grant, but a literal reading of Galatians would say that Christians are the rightful heirs to the promised land.

36

All end time events center around the Holy Land, and Jerusalem in particular. That’s where Jesus will rule from during the millennium. The Jews, even though they have rejected Christ as the Messiah, still have a prominent role to play during the tribulation. The 144,000 will be Jews that convert to Christianity and they will be spreading the gospel during that time. They are still Gods chosen people and have first claim on the Holy Land.

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The symbolic language in the Book of Revelation can be interpreted many different ways. It is not necessarily a timeline for future events.

Even if you interpret Revelation and descriptions of the end times as prophesies, it does not necessarily mean that Christians should work to fulfill them. Some prophesies are warnings.

“Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” Jonah 3:4
When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. Jonah 3:10

Likewise, there were multiple prophesies of the crucifixion in the Old Testament and Jesus predicted the crucifixion, but the eleven faithful apostles did not work to support the crucifixion.

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No more than the Koran is for the Muslims. The Muslims don’t have a right to inhabit every part of the Middle East. Coexisting is key.

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I believe that is so. “But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under law.” There is no code of laws as a checklist for - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness faithfulness gentleness and self-control. There is no law against these attributes of character.

“Faith working through love.” The law of Christ is the law of love. “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.”

40

True, we aren’t working to fulfill prophecy, but God certainly saw down through time and the events that were going to occur and when and WHO would be the person(s) who would fulfill those prophecies. Some prophecies were very time specific but many were not. Christians aren’t to fret over trying to fulfill prophecies, they’re going to be fulfilled according to God’s will, BUT there are some things we are told to specifically look for and know that the fulfillment of these things would lead to other specific events. Whenever Jesus said “WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS…” There are many things happening in our time that have only recently been possible to happen. Jesus said no man knows the day or hour that he would return, but he did say when you see certain things, start looking up. As I look at world events, I’m looking up…

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John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. "

Did God give us a Savior and take Him back?

Heb 13:5 - "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."