Is school choice a civil-rights issue?

[PurpnGold]

@gooddad409

@PurpnGold

@gooddad409

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@WorldWatcher

You left off an important port of the cite you made which was context.

The case that you quote was about was a state that required all children to attend public school and barred private schools.

The ruling was that states couldn’t bar private schools.

WW

You are correct regarding the missing context of @DMK’s quote, however, it does not contradict that “the 14th Amendment protects a parent’s right to direct the educational upbringing of their child.”

Sure they may have the right… but not necessarily with my money.

What difference should it make to you what school they go to? Your money is used to educate children. What school they go to makes no difference in how much taxpayers contribute to each of them.

I think they want to keep a sizeable number of kids poorly educated especially inner city type kids.

Keep them dependent on the democrat party.

Inner city kids, like the ones I mentor, won’t benefit from vouchers. They don’t have better private school options within a drivable or walkable distance. And even still, the vouchers won’t cover full tuition.

It benefits people like me who are already sending their kids to private school or can already afford to.

So your “solution” is to leave the kids in failed schools with no opportunity to do something different right?

Convieniently benefits the dem party as well.

No, my solution is to find other ways to improve public schools… especially in inner cities.

Such as…

Incentives for teachers like paying off student loans (some already do this), offering housing assistance on the down payment and closing costs, more pay, etc

For students… more vocational or trade classes. More arts for those kids that have no interest in math & science.

I’d even add more incentives for kids to go into trades… things like access to special SB loans, home down payment assistance etc.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@gooddad409

I think they want to keep a sizeable number of kids poorly educated especially inner city type kids.

You think wrong.

It is well known that most people wo are well educated tend to lean liberal. One of the biggest complaints pubcons have is college sways people to a more liberal ideology. Y’all claim it is due to pushing a liberal agenda…which is simply not true… Well, unless teaching actual history, and science is considered a liberal agenda.

Of course. Four years or more of indoctrination is bound to have an effect.

@Guilds

I also do not understand why so many of the pubcons in this thread do not understand why vouchers will only help upper middle class and up families, and no one else…it is really just math.

And I don’t understand why you are so damned sure poor kids wouldn’t benefit. Where is your study? Where is your trial program? All we have from your ilk is the lib talking point that it only helps the families of rich kids who already go to private schools. What are you afraid of? That you might be proven wrong?

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

I do know that.

There are only three private schools within a 15 mile radius. One is about 25k a year. The other around 29k. The last one is 42k a year.

C’mon man. If vouchers were a thing, there is a high probability that private schools would pop up like mushrooms.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

No, my solution is to find other ways to improve public schools… especially in inner cities.

You libs have been doing that for decades. That’s why we are in this situation.

[TheRedComet]

This has been an interesting debate.

Good job to both sides.

I’m not participating because I’ll be honest I don’t know enough about the modern public education system to really make good recommendations. I’ve been out of public school since 2008 and I’m sure a lot of things have changed since then.

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

@WuWei

Change one variable…

Pick one…

Which variable will change to allow those kids to pay for anyone of those schools?

Let’s find out.

[WuWei]

Spend. Spend. Spend. It’s not yours to give.

Everything you mentioned we either pay for or already had.

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

More arts for those kids that have no interest in math & science.

How many people make a living off of “arts”?

[bigtwnvin]

Inner city US school systems have billions of taxpayers dollars thrown at them to educate students. Why are the results so disgraceful?

[WuWei]

Well… isn’t this interesting…

Georgia Democrat defects to GOP after she says Dems 'crucified,' 'abandoned' her

[conan]

@PurpnGold

No, my solution is to find other ways to improve public schools… especially in inner cities.

Such as…

Incentives for teachers like paying off student loans (some already do this), offering housing assistance on the down payment and closing costs, more pay, etc

For students… more vocational or trade classes. More arts for those kids that have no interest in math & science.

I’d even add more incentives for kids to go into trades… things like access to special SB loans, home down payment assistance etc.

Is that all you want?

[gooddad409]

@Samm

@Guilds

@gooddad409

I think they want to keep a sizeable number of kids poorly educated especially inner city type kids.

You think wrong.

It is well known that most people wo are well educated tend to lean liberal. One of the biggest complaints pubcons have is college sways people to a more liberal ideology. Y’all claim it is due to pushing a liberal agenda…which is simply not true… Well, unless teaching actual history, and science is considered a liberal agenda.

Of course. Four years or more of indoctrination is bound to have an effect.

@Guilds

I also do not understand why so many of the pubcons in this thread do not understand why vouchers will only help upper middle class and up families, and no one else…it is really just math.

And I don’t understand why you are so damned sure poor kids wouldn’t benefit. Where is your study? Where is your trial program? All we have from your ilk is the lib talking point that it only helps the families of rich kids who already go to private schools. What are you afraid of? That you might be proven wrong?

They fear it might work. That would lose dem voters dependent on government (taxpayer) assistance.

[Guilds]

@Samm

And I don’t understand why you are so damned sure poor kids wouldn’t benefit. Where is your study? Where is your trial program? All we have from your ilk is the lib talking point that it only helps the families of rich kids who already go to private schools. What are you afraid of? That you might be proven wrong?

It is simple math. Vouchers are not enough to fully cover private schools., which means these poorer families could no take advantage of the vouchers, as they could not afford the difference in tuition.

Plus Private schools do not include transportation and these private schools may not be close enough, adding an additional obstacle.

Now, if there was a philanthropic institution that offered these vouchers, that did fully cover the costs…that would be great…but taking money out of the school funding to pay for these would weaken the public schools, and only help those that don’t really need the help.

[Guilds]

@Samm

Of course. Four years or more of indoctrination is bound to have an effect

I already addressed this BS talking point.

Y’all claim it is due to pushing a liberal agenda…which is simply not true… Well, unless teaching actual history, and science is considered a liberal agenda.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@Samm

And I don’t understand why you are so damned sure poor kids wouldn’t benefit. Where is your study? Where is your trial program? All we have from your ilk is the lib talking point that it only helps the families of rich kids who already go to private schools. What are you afraid of? That you might be proven wrong?

It is simple math. Vouchers are not enough to fully cover private schools., which means these poorer families could no take advantage of the vouchers, as they could not afford the difference in tuition.

Plus Private schools do not include transportation and these private schools may not be close enough, adding an additional obstacle.

Now, if there was a philanthropic institution that offered these vouchers, that did fully cover the costs…that would be great…but taking money out of the school funding to pay for these would weaken the public schools, and only help those that don’t really need the help.

There you go again … presuming that the current “rich kid” private schools would be the only ones around. The truth is, if vouchers were available to all kids, there would be a proliferation of new private schools to meet the demand. And to compete in the free market, they would price accordingly and offer features (such as transportation if needed) to attract students. And just think, they may even compete by providing a better education as one of those features.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@Samm

Of course. Four years or more of indoctrination is bound to have an effect

I already addressed this BS talking point.

Y’all claim it is due to pushing a liberal agenda…which is simply not true… Well, unless teaching actual history, and science is considered a liberal agenda.

Are you seriously going to try to tell us that universities have not been bastions of liberalism and progressivism for the last forty - fifty years? That’s not only a fact, it’s a fact that universities are proud of.

[DMK]

@PurpnGold

Inner city kids, like the ones I mentor, won’t benefit from vouchers. They don’t have better private school options within a drivable or walkable distance. And even still, the vouchers won’t cover full tuition.

Why wouldn’t they benefit from vouchers?

[DMK]

@PurpnGold

California spends 21k, so a 17k voucher. That would mean out of pocket

I would bet there are people like yourself, interested in mentoring that would be able to put together community private schools.

You could have someone volunteer their home or an office space, provide transportation and hire qualified teachers who would most likely get paid a heck of a lot more than they get paid now (cutting out the bureaucracy).

I’ll bet there are a lot of trades that would be happy to mentor students which could be an optional class. One semester electrical, one semester plumbing, etc.

There ARE solutions if you can think creatively. Perhaps this would help change the attitude that education is for losers because the peer pressure wouldn’t be there and learning might actually be challenging and fun.

[Ceasar]

@DMK

@PurpnGold

California spends 21k, so a 17k voucher. That would mean out of pocket

I would bet there are people like yourself, interested in mentoring that would be able to put together community private schools.

You could have someone volunteer their home or an office space, provide transportation and hire qualified teachers who would most likely get paid a heck of a lot more than they get paid now (cutting out the bureaucracy).

I’ll bet there are a lot of trades that would be happy to mentor students which could be an optional class. One semester electrical, one semester plumbing, etc.

There ARE solutions if you can think creatively. Perhaps this would help change the attitude that education is for losers because the peer pressure wouldn’t be there and learning might actually be challenging and fun.

Not collective enough for the left, no matter how they fail our kids.

[Guilds]

@Samm

There you go again … presuming that the current “rich kid” private schools would be the only ones around. The truth is, if vouchers were available to all kids,

Average Voucher is $4600 annual
Average Tuition for Private school $12,350

Difference of $7750, $645.00 per month , per kid.

That would be a stretch for most in the middle class, and basically impossible for those below the middle class.

Like I said, it’s just math.