Is Jesus a radical?

Agreed. I could never look someone in the eye and tell them I love them, then turn around and threaten to burn their flesh for 600 quadrillion consecutive eons if they don’t sing me the correct praises on a strict weekly basis with a strict repetitive ritual of mantras and prayer chants and contemporary genres of music.

And I feel WAY more loved than that too. I certainly don’t need a Hell to exist in order to love God, and I definitely don’t need to make myself feel superior by condemning others to eternal tortures.

Starting to toot my own little horn here… lol

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:sunglasses: :us: :metal:

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Thanks for the continuing chat. Night, folks!

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Thank you and G’nite.

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CHAPTER II
Tactfulness

"At that time the World-honored One, rising quietly and clearly from contemplation,
addressed Shariputra: “The wisdom of buddhas is very profound and infinite. Their
wisdom-school is difficult to understand and difficult to enter, so that the shravakas
and pratyekabuddhas cannot apprehend it. Wherefore? [Because] the buddhas have
been in fellowship with countless hundred thousand myriad kotis of buddhas,
perfectly practicing the infinite Law of all buddhas, boldly and zealously advancing
and [making] their fame universally known, perfecting the very profound,
unprecedented Law and preaching, as opportunity served, its meaning [so] difficult to
understand. Shariputra! Ever since I became Buddha, with various reasonings and
various parables I have widely discoursed and taught, and by countless tactful
methods have led living beings, causing them to leave all attachments. Wherefore?
[Because] the Tathagata is altogether perfect in his tactfulness and paramita of
wisdom. Shariputra! The wisdom of the Tathagata is broad and great, profound and
far-reaching; [his mind] is infinite;1 [his expositions] are unimpeded;2 [his] powers,3
[his] fearlessness,4 [his] meditations,5 [his] emancipations,6 [his] contemplations have
enabled him to enter into the boundless [realms] and to accomplish all the
unprecedented Law. Shariputra! The Tathagata is able to discriminate everything,
preach the laws skillfully, use gentle words, and cheer the hearts of all. Shariputra!
Essentially speaking, the Buddha has altogether fulfilled the infinite, boundless,
unprecedented Law. Enough, Shariputra, there is no need to say more. Wherefore?
[Because] the Law which the Buddha has perfected is the chief unprecedented Law,
and difficult to understand. Only a buddha together with a buddha can fathom the
Reality of All Existence, that is to say, all existence7 [has] such a form, such a nature,
such an embodiment, such a potency, such a function, such a primary cause, such a
secondary cause, such an effect, such a recompense, and such a complete fundamental
whole.” 8

1 “Infinite” indicates the four kinds of infinite mind or infinite virtues: benevolence (or kindness),
compassion, joy, and indifference. See also p. 209, fn. 5.
2 “Unimpeded” (or “unlimited”) indicates the four unlimited forms of wisdom listed on p. 32, fn.
4.
3 The ten powers. See Glossary.
4 The four kinds of fearlessness of a buddha: (1) fearlessness in proclaiming all truth; (2)
fearlessness in proclaiming the truth of perfection, or freedom from faults; (3) fearlessness in
exposing obstacles to the truth; and (4) fearlessness in proclaiming the way to end all suffering.
5 Dhyana, literally, “fixed abstraction”: contemplation or exercises in reflection; one of the Six
Paramitas. See Glossary.
6 The eight emancipations. See Glossary. 7 All laws or all existences. The word “Reality” does not occur in the extant Sanskrit text. 8 These ten categories, termed the Ten Suchnesses, are fundamental to the T’ien-t’ai sect of
Buddhism. The most important doctrine of its founder, Chih-i (538-97), that of “three thousand
[worlds] in one thought,” arises from these categories. The extant Sanskrit text has only the
following sentences corresponding to these ten categories: (1) ye ca te dharma, or “what those
laws are,” “such a nature”; (2) yatha ca te dharma, or “how those laws are,” “such a function”; (3)
yadrishash ca te dharma, or “like what those laws are,” “such a complete fundamental whole”; (4)
yallakshanash ca te dharma, or “of what forms [or characteristics] those laws are,” “such a form”; (5)
yatsvabhavash ca te dharmah, or “of what self-natures those laws are,” “such an embodiment”; (6)
ye ca, or “what”; (7) yatha ca, or “how”; (8) yadrishash ca, or “like what”; (9) yallakshanash ca, or “of
what forms”; (10) yatsvabhavash ca, or “of what self-natures.” These seem to correspond to the ten
categories, but the sixth to the tenth, which are not found in Kern’s translation, may be only a
repetition of the first five. This extant Sanskrit original may be different from that which
Kumarajiva used, or Kumarajiva may have translated these words according to their inner,
esoteric meanings.

I didn’t mean for you to answer the questions. They are questions that philosophers and theologians have debated, argued, and even fought over for centuries. (The angel question was actually usurped by protestants at one point as a pejorative against Catholic theologians for their waste of time on anything other than fundamental literalism.)

I posted those questions as examples of theological battlegrounds.

The response I replied to was your statement that you consider God to be natural, not supernatural. I’m not interested in pretending we’re theologians or philosophers, nor am I interested in an internet bickering over another such battleground. I’ll repeat, and leave it at this:

I will address this though:

Since we humans are made in God’s image, maybe God IS in human form. But that’s not pertinent to the question.

I agree with your answer. The two sides of the paradox cannot exist together in our natural world. But yes, God can still defy nature and human logic, and do the impossible. God can transcend nature. That answer actually shows that God is super-natural. (At least as I see the meaning of Natural and Supernatural.) As I already conceded, you have a different view of what they mean. And I’ll reiterate that I’m not interested in trying to change either of our views on that.

God is us. We’re just not Him. :wink:

This is an important point.

The basic message of the Gospel is straightforward and simple. Yes, it’s often difficult to live out, but the message is simple. It has to be. Consider the original missionary spread of the Gospel. Most recipients of the message were illiterate. They couldn’t parse words or defer to the original Greek or Aramaic text. Even today, much of the world is illiterate. They don’t have the means to compare a half dozen biblical translations to determine the precise meaning of a sentence.

Let the theologians gather in hallowed halls and get tangled in the weeds with each other.

" At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. " (LK 10:21)

Jesus’ message today is the same simple message from 2000 years ago. Love God, and love one another----these two commandments are not new, Jesus is just repeating them for his Jewish audience. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:40

Romans 13:8 "Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

All of the commandments God has given to man has been to lead them to these two love commandments. Jesus also said the two were not “new commandments”.

Since the simple gospel message of Jesus, the doctrine of pagan dreamers has been included in to the message.

The made-up idea that hell is where every-lasting souls are suffering and persecuted indefinitely and eternally, continually by a just God was resisted by Luther and Tyndale and many of the restoration trailblazers.

These ideas were merged into our Bibles by men who mistranslated 4 words, 57 times in the King James Version. . . . . . Hades, Sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus. The “translation” of four different words into one single word - hell, should raise red flags.

It’s no wonder that there is so many false beliefs.

I once believed this false opinion of hell.

Jesus cautioned against keeping practices of men… “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.” Mark 7:8

Jesus’ simple message “28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11

The made up and capitalized word “Satan” was also made up from a pagan dream.

Jesus’ Apostles, especially the Apostle Paul taught the Pagan Gentile world God’s truth.

Writings from the 1st century. Mathetes who says he is a disciple of the Apostles

Come, then, after you have freed yourself from all prejudices possessing your mind, and laid aside what you have been accustomed to, as something apt to deceive you, and being made, as if from the beginning, a new man, inasmuch as, according to your own confession, you are to be the hearer of a new [system of] doctrine; come and contemplate, not with your eyes only, but with your understanding, the substance and the form of those whom you declare and deem to be gods.

Is not one of them a stone similar to that on which we tread? Is not a second brass, in no way superior to those vessels which are constructed for our ordinary use? Is not a third wood, and that already rotten? Is not a fourth silver, which needs a man to watch it, lest it be stolen? Is not a fifth iron, consumed by rust? Is not a sixth earthenware, in no degree more valuable than that which is formed for the humblest purposes?

Are not all these of corruptible matter? Are they not fabricated by means of iron and fire? Did not the sculptor fashion one of them, the brazier a second, the silversmith a third, and the potter a fourth? Was not every one of them, before they were formed by the arts of these [workmen] into the shape of these [gods], each in its own way subject to change? Would not those things which are now vessels, formed of the same materials, become like to such, if they met with the same artificers? Might not these, which are now worshipped by you, again be made by men vessels similar to others? Are they not all deaf? Are they not blind? Are they not without life? Are they not destitute of feeling? Are they not incapable of motion? Are they not all prone to decay? Are they not all corruptible?

These things you call gods; these you serve; these you worship; and you become altogether like them. For this reason you hate the Christians, because they do not deem these to be gods. But do not you yourselves, who now think and suppose [such to be gods], much more cast contempt upon them than they [the Christians do]? Do you not much more mock and insult them, when you worship those that are made of stone and earthenware, without appointing any persons to guard them; but those made of silver and gold you shut up by night, and appoint watchers to look after them by day, lest they be stolen? And by those gifts which you mean to present to them, do you not, if they are possessed of sense, rather punish [than honour] them? But if, on the other hand, they are destitute of sense, you convict them of this fact, while you worship them with blood and the smoke of sacrifices. Let any one of you suffer such indignities! Let any one of you endure to have such things done to himself! But not a single human being will, unless compelled to it, endure such treatment, since he is endowed with sense and reason. A stone, however, readily bears it, seeing it is insensible. Certainly you do not show [by your conduct] that he [your God] is possessed of sense. And as to the fact that Christians are not accustomed to serve such gods, I might easily find many other things to say; but if even what has been said does not seem to any one sufficient, I deem it idle to say anything further.

Which is exactly the way we all want to be treated. :wink:

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As long as they’re in the right tribe and believe Jesus was in a tribe too.

For God so ever loved my tribe…

Otherwise, Crucify them

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The fallacies of Soul, Non-soul, self or non-self, gender, Heaven, Hell. body, mind-----I and others. All transient, Maya, illusion Samsara and extinguishing illusion. Salvation, escape from the wheel of birth and death. Nirvana

Identity is fake. What draws people back to the wheel? it’s Fear and cowardice, Hungers and sexual desires. Animality and Anger
People are creating their present and next life by cause and effect. No “being” or deity is doing it. Confused, primitive, infinite space and time,
Even faith the size of a mustard seed can fix it… and for the more adventurous, Amrita can open the door. Extinguish the illusion and stop the hell of incessant suffering. unselfishness is faith.