Is college too difficult for today's American students?

[Samm]

@Eagle-Keeper

@Samm

Yes, but in the case of our education system, it is the educators who are driving the society by indoctrinating children from a very young age. Universities are just the blatant tip of the iceberg where the indoctrination of the youth rears its head. We have now reached the point where qualifications produced by higher education are in danger of becoming meaningless, or even a detriment to the recipients.

I agree with you on that as well. One can argue that it’s a double edged sword. One the one hand there’s an increasing decline in the quality of student along with a decreasing decline in the quality of education.

Yep, and self-perpetuating until the decline becomes so bad the entire system fails. And I don’t think that time is too far off.

[WuWei]

@GrandWazoo

The one thing that I have learned over the years is that major Corporations will now hire kids out of college before they will hire folks with a few years experience.

That’s changing among my clients. Slowly.

[WuWei]

Entropy. Failure is the default. Success requires effort.

[zantax]

@Samm

@Eagle-Keeper

@Samm

Yes, but in the case of our education system, it is the educators who are driving the society by indoctrinating children from a very young age. Universities are just the blatant tip of the iceberg where the indoctrination of the youth rears its head. We have now reached the point where qualifications produced by higher education are in danger of becoming meaningless, or even a detriment to the recipients.

I agree with you on that as well. One can argue that it’s a double edged sword. One the one hand there’s an increasing decline in the quality of student along with a decreasing decline in the quality of education.

Yep, and self-perpetuating until the decline becomes so bad the entire system fails. And I don’t think that time is too far off.

If I was still running a business no way I would hire a college graduate who entered college after 2015 or so.

[LeroyBrown]

@moonshine

ome professors arent really cut out for teaching. I still remember back when i was in college i was taking a basic communications theory class (engineering). Professor went over what we were expected to know for the exam. He lied. the exam was pretty much everything but what he said it would cover. I got a 15 out of 100 and becauseit was graded on a curve that was a C. When he was asked about it at the next class his answer was we should have studied everything,not just what he said the exam would cover. his entire philosophy was basically trying to show students how he knew so much more than they did.

The next semester he wasnt teaching any beginning/intermediate level engineering classes

Had a teacher like that at the tech school I attended for the Statistics and Strengths of Materials course. Once the class figured out he was testing from chapters he hadn’t taught yet it was easy to figure out his system and study for the test. The ones who figured it out at first were accused of cheating because “my tests are designed that none of you should pass” and he felt that it was the only fair way to teach; “impossible” tests with a curve. Those of us who figured out his system then shared what was going on with the rest of the class. In the end, the only students that didn’t pass the class were the ones too offended by his approach to play along.

[Gaius]

@GrandWazoo

The one thing that I have learned over the years is that major Corporations will now hire kids out of college before they will hire folks with a few years experience.

I think that depends on the field.

A person can get a high school diploma he can’t read,
successfully not be fired as a fry-guy or construction worker
and yet be completely unsuited to be a middle-manage the multi-million dollar business they successfully did not get fired at.

Sales is definitely experience-based and success-based, but not all fields are.

“Really, I made fries and I laid roofing shingles, certainly I can manage a $300,000 annual payroll and $7 million in annual revenue. Heck, when I wasn’t hitting on chicks or smoking pot on high school, I even learned to spell ‘million’” won’t cut it.

[WuWei]

@Gaius

certainly I can manage a $300,000 annual payroll and $7 million in annual revenue.

You think a college degree does?

[WuWei]

@Gaius

“Really, I made fries and I laid roofing shingles, certainly I can manage a $300,000 annual payroll and $7 million in annual revenue. Heck, when I wasn’t hitting on chicks or smoking pot on high school, I even learned to spell ‘million’”

Describing every young person who chooses not to go to college?

What if that young man spent the past 4 years working up to that capability and took an accounting class at night?

[GA_LP]

You really think construction workers, in general, don’t need to read???

[WuWei]

I skipped over that one on purpose.

[Gaius]

@WuWei

@Gaius

certainly I can manage a $300,000 annual payroll and $7 million in annual revenue.

You think a college degree does?

Personally? I think it depends.

Rest of the world?
Hiring managers (personnel dept) play cover your ass same as everyone else. Knowing that anyone they hire can be a dramatic failure they will protect their own jobs and reputations.
They will hire

1. People with credentials including degree
2. People who have dedicated their lives to succeeding in the white collar world
3. People who have proven (via college) that they are not part of the “Smoke pot all through HS and can’t read his HS diploma” crowd.

[WuWei]

@Gaius

Personally? I think it depends.

On what,

[Gaius]

@WuWei

@Gaius

Personally? I think it depends.

On what,

Well, I once knew a automotive engineer (fresh graduate from Penn State) who couldn’t change the oil in his car.

I once met a computer hardware major who couldn’t put together a circa 1999 computer from a kit.

There is a definite lack of hands-on experience aka “lab classes” in many college majors. (But no lack of training in cultural sensitivity.) Still if I were to recommend someone for a management training program, a college degree is a written third-party assessment that he did not fake his way through high school.

[zantax]

@Gaius

@WuWei

@Gaius

Personally? I think it depends.

On what,

Well, I once knew a automotive engineer (fresh graduate from Penn State) who couldn’t change the oil in his car.

I once met a computer hardware major who couldn’t put together a circa 1999 computer from a kit.

There is a definite lack of hands-on experience aka “lab classes” in many college majors. (But no lack of training in cultural sensitivity.) Still if I were to recommend someone for a management training program, a college degree is a written third-party assessment that he did not fake his way through high school.

But it is also increasingly a guarantee they will sit around complaining your company isn’t woke enough instead of doing the job.

[WuWei]

@Gaius

a college degree is a written third-party assessment that he did not fake his way through high school.

But not that he didn’t fake his way through college.

[WuWei]

I would have said general intelligence.

[Gaius]

@WuWei

I would have said general intelligence.

I bet she has the social skill to talk her way through a 30-minute interview
and to spend years at a job and avoid getting fired.

Wanna put her in charge of your small business?
(You know the one in which you have invested your life’s savings and you and your family will be bankrupt if someone messes it up?)

[Nemesis]

When I am hiring a college degree gives me an indication that someone can commit and deliver. Obviously its not guarantee and not the whole picture but just one of many things I look at.

My daughter works for Probation Service in the UK and they conduct blind interviews. She is part of a panel that interviews candidates which have been passed to them by HR. They have no information on the candidates and ask each of them the same questions. I quite like that approach.

Yeah I know I went a little bit off topic

[WuWei]

Come on man!

[WuWei]

@Nemesis

and deliver.

Not true.